Automatic trans coupled to flat head

[Happyhewy]

I have a 1956 Dodge pickup with a six and a 3 speed. A few questions,

I am considering switching the transmission to an automatic, will a later 727

bolt up? Need and adapter? If so are the adapters available?

The truck has the original rear axle that I will change to a later year in order to get wheel studs instead of wheel bolts.

What problems am I going to run into, switching the backing plates to accommodate parking brakes in place of the drive shaft brake drum?

Is the 1956 six a 218 or 230? How do find out? The engine number is D30 253034.

Hewy

[Frank Elder]

Wilcap has an adaptor for the chevy 350 tranny if you want, or look at 1-888-Hemi-Parts for an adaptor that fits 727. His forum name is wayfarer.

Not affiliated or recommending just listing options:D

[Reg Evans]

A D30 engine is a 49 Dodge Coronet 230 rated at 103 hp. Don't know about the trans adapter.

[grey beard]

Mr. Hewey,

This is a very good thread. The basic issue has been batted about here over the past four years or so, but never with any definitive answers.

It is my understanding that flathead MoPars were built that had automatic transmissions. If this is true, the information as to what it takes to mate the two components should not be any great mistery. It is also my understanding that the automatics originally coupled to flatheads were not 727's, or Torqueflites or even true automatics, but some early variety of two-speed predecessor to the automatics we all know and love today.

I would very much like to see information as to exactly what is involved in this type of swap - especially if the automatic invovled was a unit that incorporated overdrive - like a 700 R4, for example. This, for me, would represent a significant improvement over a swap to a T-5 stick shift - sorta' like the best of both worlds - mebby a "Win-Win."

Come on now, you MoPar mavens. Who can shed some light on this question? I await your answers with baited breath - sharp cheese for lunch . . .

[kencombs]

I also have a 56 pickup. I researched my trans choices a while back and found that Wilcap can make one up for the later trans. My choice was to go with an 833 overdrive 4 speed. Gathering parts, and just about have everything I need. Using a 58-60 bellhousing which has the right size pilot hole but will need material welded on to accept new bolt holes. It is a hydraulic clutch housing and I'm using the matching pedal set from a 60. Still debating the brakes. I think I'm using a GM hydrovac/master cylinder.

All this (even the clutch housing!) is usable with my 230 or a 301 poly that I also have.

I think the adapter will work with the overdrive versions of the 904 also and if using an auto, that is what my choice would be.

On the rear end issue, I wouldn't change it just for studs, I converted mine using some studs from the parts store. Took all of an hour (not counting the time searching for a hub puller). With an overdrive in front of it, the low original gearing is not a problem.

[Happyhewy]

A D30 engine is a 49 Dodge Coronet 230 rated at 103 hp. Don't know about the trans adapter.

This is very possible as I'm the third owner, but the guy I bought it from did nothing but park it for a few years but ,as the story goes, didn't do anything to it. He did say the original owner did make a swap of the front axle to a later one, and included an extra later model rear. Being new to MoPars I can't verify what the the axle is ,year size etc.......

I guess what I'm saying is the engine could very well be a transplant as you pointed out. That's OK by me as I'm making plans to change things anyway.

Thanks for your input.

[Happyhewy]

kencombs and grey beard. Nice to see somebody else doing this, I am gathering information and will be starting the conversion this coming winter probably 2010.

I have a 318 poly that I was thinking about using with a 727, but I like the idea of keeping the flat head. Now that I found out it is a 230 that's even better.

Where can I find more specs on these engines ? As I said I'm gathering info now.

The engine will be pulled and rebuilt 1st, :rolleyes:well that's a good idea.

So as times goes I will be asking more questions.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Happyhewy

[Young Ed]

Starting in late 54 plymouth cars had the powerflite as an option. Powerflite is a true automatic. Its a 2spd though. I believe in 57 you could get a torqueflite. However this is the early version with no park option. Now what I haven't quite discovered is if this early 3spd torqueflite has the same bolt patern as the later ones.

[grey beard]

Thanks, Ed

Was the powerflight the only automatic MoPar linked to a flathead?

Ed, that torqueflight bolt pattern question would be interesting to have an answer to, although I'd imagine any transmission that old would be very hard to find today, unless it is upwardly compatible with later stuff.

I just think it would be very nice to find a bolt-in package to put an O.D. automatic in a Pilothouse. Now that would be sweet . . . . . .

[Young Ed]

I couldn't find any reference to determine if you could get a flathead and a torqueflite in 57-59. However it does say that chrysler themselves had a kit to replace a powerflite with a torqueflite. Also mentions that the basic 727 torqueflite became the OD trans of the more current time. So it sounds like all we are down to determining is if the first torqueflite of the late 50s shares bolt pattern with the 727 that replaced it.

[Young Ed]

Here's what I was reading. Lots of info to take in

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/torqueflite.html

[H Suhling]

When I was in high school I had a 57 Plymouth with a six cylinder and a two speed push button auto that was a long time ago but i think it had a park button.

Harvey

[greg g]

I beleive 59 dodges and plymouths had the option for the early torque flite, I think they also had a park lever that basically engaged the parking brake. My cousin had a 57 savoy with the powerflite ( 2 speed) and the flat head six. A couple years ago I checked out some Clark tractor airport tugs, the were long block flat 6's with later torqueflites, these had 2 to 1 reduction gears built into the diffy so their road speed was limited, how fast you gotta pull a 707???

Here is one that had 12 hours on the clock after a rebuild and was going to be sold for surplus. Only problem is these little deals weigh like 8k so moving them around is a bit of a problem.

[Frank Elder]

These tugs have our sixes in them also.

[Young Ed]

Dang greg I forgot all about the airport tugs. Guy my dad knows got one somehow. He uses it to plow his driveway now.

[Frank Elder]

Those are in Omaha, I'll take closer pictures.

[greg g]

Yep and APU's also. These are the carts that provide ground power and start upair for planes. Don;t suppose they have car transmissions as these are towed deals but the engines were long mopar 6's in a lot of cases.

[Frank Elder]

Huffers as we used to call them, ran on MOGAS or Kerosene...Whooop, Whooop, then they were ready to apply an air start to J-52's or J72's. Pretty sure ours were turbines as they used ignitors to start. Like modern stoves...tick tick tick whooosh!

[Happyhewy]

So far I have found Wilcap make the Chrysler six adapter for the GM 700r.

I do want to keep the truck all MoPar. Just my thing:)So I will keep digging. Also the 230 crank installed in a 218 improves the torque, so assume the stroke is longer than a 218. I'm searching Allpar now for specs.

[Frank Elder]

Happy, 230 crank, rods make your 218 a 230.

[Olddaddy]

I have one of the original Mopar adapters from an airport tug. It adapts a 727, and with some modification a 904 to a flathead six. It's a nice piece, big, heavy and says Mopar right on it...................

Now, having said that and read all the posts so far I am going to suggest that you forget all about anything else you've read and simply buy an adapter from:

Quality Engineered Components:

Quality Engineered Components has an adapter for the Late Torqueflight to flat 6 & 8 inliners. The adapter will mount the small block 904/A500 or the 727/A518 as well as the small block manual bellhousing. email to: bacchus_lane@yahoo.com phone inquiries to 888-Hemi-Parts (888-436-4727) M-F, 0700-1700hrs.

No special parts or odd-ball modifications, just nuts and bolts and all MOPAR.

This guy knows his stuff, and is seriously all Mopar. This is hands down the best and simplest adapter to do the job, period! And it's cheap by comparison to anything else!!!

[Andydodge]

Oldaddy's info sounds like the way to go but the side valve six did use the cast iron 3 speed Torqueflite at least here in Oz, tho' it was behind the 25" engine but as far as I know the 23 & 25 " engines used the same bellhousing and the last of the sidevalves in 1959 Plymouths would have also used the cast iron torqueflite.......but to be honest the later alloy ones are the way to go........and they have a "Park" built into the box......but if you use them then you'll have to change your rear end as the later alloy Torqueflites don't have the handbrake on the back of the gearbox so you'll have to rig up one on a rear end.......andyd.

[Happyhewy]

Thanks for the detailed recommendations.I am in contact with bacchus about the adapter.Will let you all know.

[Happyhewy]

Well got a response from bacchus lane@yahoo.com. He is recommending a 904 trans for it's final drive ratio.He makes an adapter to the six as you know.

As I don't know a thing about Mopar transmissions, I've started a research of this forum and came up with some info to start my education.

Just a couple of weeks ago, 8/13/09 to be exact,budstruck started a thread here on a trans and engine combo he bought .He got several responses, including a nice list of descriptions for a 904 from 48dodger.

So going to begin a lookout for 904 and 727 so I can identify them.

This is where the fun begins:D:D Any further info from you guys, I'm all ears.

Hewy ( aka happyhewy )

[Olddaddy]

If you want to run your original parking brake and rear end, look for a 727 from an RV. They had a drum brake mounted on the tailshaft where the earlier Mopars had an open brake. They work the same and you can keep your original brake, and rear end. They also have the flat plate mount for the u-joint so your original drive shaft setup will work, but you will probably have to shorten it.