Karl Childers Posted April 8, 2009 Report Posted April 8, 2009 I bought a "new" old trans from a member on here for my car, i bought an oem gearshift control cable, i put it all in and i got some good news and bad news... 1940 dodge d14... i have movement, it goes through the gears... now for the bad: i have no reverse gear...my reverse position on the column is now a forward gear...as well as 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear position...no reverse. and to top that...my 2nd gear position is actually 1st, and what would have been 3rd seems to be 2nd and 1st is 3rd....just from how it seemed and reverse is also a forward gear but dont know why. the cable actually pulls and pushed from the column on the lever but i dont know if its adjusted correctly or if i have it set up right and dont actually know what it really does. and to top all this...the trans is STILL GRINDING!!! i am positive it is coming from inside the bellhousing now...there are no doubts in my mind. i am tired of this car now...anyone have a stock auto trans for a 1940 dodge d14????? prefer ready to go and all the parts to swap it to the manual crank/etc...im buying!!! i dont care how slow or sluggish it is, its better than 10 mph Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 i am tired of this car now...anyone have a stock auto trans for a 1940 dodge d14????? prefer ready to go and all the parts to swap it to the manual crank/etc...im buying!!! i dont care how slow or sluggish it is, its better than 10 mph If you are tired of the car now I suggest you sell it. The only way you can be successful when working on anything is to develop the mindset that failure is not an option. Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 If you are tired of the car now I suggest you sell it. The only way you can be successful when working on anything is to develop the mindset that failure is not an option. Don, Read this post. http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=14671 Quote
Joe Flanagan Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 Why would you give up now after you've put all this work into it? It's a really nice car and seems like it's almost there. This hobby isn't for everyone. I recall in an earlier post you jokingly said you have "car ADD." Patience is the number one priority when you own one of these things. Maybe you'd be better off just owning a modern car and leaving it at that. Quote
Frank Elder Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 Different tranny still grinding....maybe it's you, not the gears, if you don't get instant satisfaction, it seems old cars are not for you. Quote
Reg Evans Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 i am tired of this car now...anyone have a stock auto trans for a 1940 dodge d14????? prefer ready to go and all the parts to swap it to the manual crank/etc...im buying!!! i dont care how slow or sluggish it is, its better than 10 mph Karl, If you have the $ to buy another trans. why not just turn this car over to a professional in your area and have them fix it for you? Hang In There ! Quote
TodFitch Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 Different tranny still grinding.... Is the clutch fully disengaging? And I don't believe that reverse or first are synchronized anyway. (Nothing is synchronized on my 1933 so I am working from a different mindset but I do remember that the 1963 Plymouth I learned to drive on did not have synchronized first or reverse so I am guessing that would be true on the 1940s and 1950s cars too.) Quote
greg g Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 I really can't help much because the later cars used rods not cables, but since the basic trans is the same, I would think you are looking at some adjustment ssues more than internal problems. And yes if the clutch is dragging just a bit, the input shaft will continue to spin, and getting into reverse and low will be difficult if not impossible. I though I was haveing trasn porblems, when I had diffuculty getting into low and reverse without a lot of grinding of gears. turns out s slight adjustment of the clutch to throw out lever rod cured the problem. So start by assuring that your clutchis fully disengaged. An easy test is to jack up the rear end so both wheels are off the ground, then with the engine idling and the car in neutral, there should be no drive train movement. If the driveshaft and whell is spinning, your clutch is not fully disengaged. So start there and then make your selector lever adjustments. My guess is the the effective movemet of the cables needs to be longer to make sure the selector levels are at their full travel. Quote
Karl Childers Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Posted April 9, 2009 thanks for the help, the trans doesnt grind going into gear or anything, this is during acceleration, the driveshaft was slowly spinning while in neutral Quote
TodFitch Posted April 9, 2009 Report Posted April 9, 2009 thanks for the help, the trans doesnt grind going into gear or anything, this is during acceleration, the driveshaft was slowly spinning while in neutral This sounds quite different than I assumed when reading your earlier post. Perhaps you can be more specific about exactly when this grinding noise occurs (under load? at speed?, etc.), if the transmission jumps out of gear, etc. Might not be the transmission at all... Quote
David Strieb Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 1940 was the first year for column shifting as standard equipment. I couldn't find any info on the 1940 Dodges, but I know that the early production 1940 Plymouths also had a cable activitated shift, but changed to the more common rod activatied shift control . Maybe it would be possible to retrofit your car with the later rod shift controls. Rodney's '40 Plymouth has the cable setup, maybe he could be of some help. My '40 Plymouth came with the rod setup. I'm sure the Plymouth rod linkage would work in the Dodge of the same year, as they are basically the same car and perhaps even up to the first series '48 models, if you wanted to change it. I've never shifted with a cable set up on a standard trans, but I would think that the rod set up would have better and more positive shift response. Quote
Karl Childers Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Posted April 10, 2009 1940 was the first year for column shifting as standard equipment. I couldn't find any info on the 1940 Dodges, but I know that the early production 1940 Plymouths also had a cable activitated shift, but changed to the more common rod activatied shift control . Maybe it would be possible to retrofit your car with the later rod shift controls. Rodney's '40 Plymouth has the cable setup, maybe he could be of some help. My '40 Plymouth came with the rod setup. I'm sure the Plymouth rod linkage would work in the Dodge of the same year, as they are basically the same car and perhaps even up to the first series '48 models, if you wanted to change it. I've never shifted with a cable set up on a standard trans, but I would think that the rod set up would have better and more positive shift response. this cable driven shifter is a nightmare from the word go...do you know anyone who has the shifter rod linkage? i would gladly make an attempt at swapping it...i cant get this correct at all. do you have any pics? Quote
Karl Childers Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Posted April 10, 2009 This sounds quite different than I assumed when reading your earlier post. Perhaps you can be more specific about exactly when this grinding noise occurs (under load? at speed?, etc.), if the transmission jumps out of gear, etc. Might not be the transmission at all... its a chatter after you accelerate in 3rd gear and the top end of 2nd if you are already in 3rd gear speeds while in second, like if you run out 2nd. like teeth not releasing or being loose, it chatters while giving it gas but gets alot worse after you let of the gas to coast. i dont know how to exlplain this without someone actually being in the car...i had the rearend checked, i had the u-joints checked, 2 trans' were tested and both did this. Quote
greg g Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 Uh, is the flywheel properly secured, and the pressure plate assembly firmly securred to the flywheel? Another item might be broken or weak springs in the friction disc. Quote
Karl Childers Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Posted April 10, 2009 Uh, is the flywheel properly secured, and the pressure plate assembly firmly securred to the flywheel? Another item might be broken or weak springs in the friction disc. it could be all of the above, i have never pulled the bellhousing as i have no experience in putting or taking these part, i also do not have that tool you need to align things...and if i bought new items i would not know if i was buying the correct parts since the majority of them pieces i see are on ebay and noone wants to promise/guarantee that the parts will work for me....always say things in the listing like "might" fit other years/makes/etc this is rough, i love this car but hate it at the same time. Quote
Norm's Coupe Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 As Shel mentioned, the clutch alignment tool is cheap. All you need to know when buying the tool is the number splines (number of grooves in the transmission shaft that goes into the bell housing). You can count those when you drop the transmission to remove the bell housing. Quote
Rodney Bullock Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 Why would you give up now after you've put all this work into it? It's a really nice car and seems like it's almost there. This hobby isn't for everyone. I recall in an earlier post you jokingly said you have "car ADD." Patience is the number one priority when you own one of these things. Maybe you'd be better off just owning a modern car and leaving it at that. Joe, you are so "hardcore";) Quote
Rodney Bullock Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 Karl, I have the same system on my Plymouth. When you installed everything you did not have the trans set in "n" that's why the gears are off. Because you have a cable The column shifter must be in the "nl" position, then the cable must be in the "n" position at the trans. If you have never done this before you need some help. The cable system is fine. You are pulling out in second or third thats why it's "chattering" These old cars need first gear pull out. Takea dep, deep breath and go back to the beginning loosen the cable at the trans so the shift level goes limp then you have to find the neutral position at the trans where it's not in gear if you have to rock the car back and forth until you find it then adjust the shift level so it's "even" with play in it. Quote
Merle Coggins Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 thanks for the help, the trans doesnt grind going into gear or anything, this is during acceleration, the driveshaft was slowly spinning while in neutral If the drive shaft is spinning while in neutral, are the wheels on the ground? That would indicate a bad diff. If the wheels are off the ground this would be OK. Is there an inspection cover below the clutch? Maybe you can remove it and have a look up in there for loose pieces. Merle Quote
Andydodge Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 Karl, Rodney is correct in his post regarding getting BOTH the cable AND lever in Neutral.......get the levers on the gearbox both in neutral without the shifter rod & cable attached then attach the cable and rod without moving the gearbox levers, making sure that the gearlever at the wheel inside the car still shows neutral, if not then you have to start again/adjust the threaded end of the cable & rod till they fit onto the gearbox arms........I have a 1940 Dodge and remember doing all this a little while ago.......about 37yrs to be exact......lol......I've had mine since 1971.......and I remember having some problems with various things thru the yrs........it runs a V8/auto/discs etc now......btw your car does look good on ebay........regards, andyd Quote
Rodney Bullock Posted April 10, 2009 Report Posted April 10, 2009 1940 was the first year for column shifting as standard equipment. I couldn't find any info on the 1940 Dodges, but I know that the early production 1940 Plymouths also had a cable activitated shift, but changed to the more common rod activatied shift control . Maybe it would be possible to retrofit your car with the later rod shift controls. Rodney's '40 Plymouth has the cable setup, maybe he could be of some help. My '40 Plymouth came with the rod setup. I'm sure the Plymouth rod linkage would work in the Dodge of the same year, as they are basically the same car and perhaps even up to the first series '48 models, if you wanted to change it. I've never shifted with a cable set up on a standard trans, but I would think that the rod set up would have better and more positive shift response. When the cable system is right it's like butter:) However I have the rods in the truck and aside from them hanging up sometimes they work fine. I had a 1941 plymouth, still have the trans and it was a cable set up as well. He will be alright just need some time with it. Now I have a 4 speed in the floor I don't think about it anymore Quote
David Strieb Posted April 11, 2009 Report Posted April 11, 2009 I got my info from a Mopar Streamliner catolog that was published in '47. Shows part #'s and year interchange. Shows that for Plymouth, the gearshift control cable assembly was offered for the 1939 P8 (deluxe), and the 1940 P9 and P10 models up to certian serial #'s, then only the gearshift rod assembly is listed for the '40 plymouth (P9 and P10) above those serial numbers. My '40 P10 was built in Los Angeles in March, and came with the rod type shifter. Also shows that the shifter rod assembly interchanges for plymouth and dodge for 1942 thru 1947, so the later assemblies may not bolt into an earlier car. Quote
James_Douglas Posted April 11, 2009 Report Posted April 11, 2009 Karl, Take a break from the car for a couple of days. Set aside a couple of hours and read over a few times the repair section of the 1940 Service Technical Manual. Also look at the plates in the Master Part Book for this year car. Once you have a photo in your head of how the whole thing works then take another crack at it. If you don't have these books, stop. Get the books, then try it again. Good luck, James Quote
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