Loren

According to automobile-catalog.com the theoretical top speed was 85 mph. However, a July 1949 Mechanix Illustrated test by Tom McCahill said, "When I was through with the ruff stuff we headed for some open stretches and speed runs. The Chrysler is fast and has a top actual speed of 96.5 mph...." (He was referring to the 1949 model of course but I can't imagine there was much difference and he said as much) "These cars are not radically different from the former Chrysler models in any important way." So who ya gonna believe? You just might have to do an experiment, he he he! In my younger days we'd head to El Mirage Dry Lake for an SCTA meet and get a real honest to goodness Timing Slip from my buddy Julian Doty. Which was much cheaper than a speeding ticket! If you joined a club, paid dues and performed a duty at the Lakes, you'd get a Brass Timing Tag to screw to your dash board! The black enamel ones were just the speed you went and the date you did it. The Red ones indicated you set a record.

Aren't we glad that Chrysler engineering was advanced enough to produce engines like the Plymouth/Dodge 23 inch and the DeSoto/Chrysler 25 inch? Over at Chevrolet they were still using Cast Iron for their pistons! I seem to recall that the first Corvette had cast iron pistons. I heard one story of a Corvette entered in the Mexican Road Race that didn't make it to the first turn before scattering the engine. Ford stopped using cast iron pistons after the Model T, two and a half decades before Chevrolet. In an engine that was designed to turn 3,600 rpm at peak hp, I really don't believe there's much to worry about in the piston dept. We have better motor oil that can serve engines that routinely turn twice the rpm of a flathead Mopar with few problems. The only issue that seems to be troubling for the modern crop of engines are low pressure piston rings. The idea being that low pressure rings lessen the internal friction of the engine thereby improving fuel economy. The problem is they burn oil at a rate of 1 quart every 600 to 800 miles! Older engines don't begin to burn oil like that until they're pretty worn or neglected. The splits in the skirts of old pistons were designed to allow for expansion. As the pistons wore they developed "piston slap" which was a kind of clicking sound as the pistons rocked in the bore. Tool suppliers actually made a tool that used car lots could use to expand the pistons by wedging the slots open with a kind of chisel and an air hammer. The parts manufacturers made "piston expanders" which could be driven into the piston. The best solution seems to have been Knurling the skirt of the piston to take up the loose fit. I would not use pistons with slotted skirts. They are hopelessly antique.

I believe I answered that question at least twice. Replacement pistons are made to factory standards so you could run one piston from every source you can think of until you filled all 6 holes and the engine would never know the difference! Pistons and rings are commodities, especially for 70+ year old Plymouths. Which means there isn't a dimes worth of difference between any brand of standard replacement piston. They are all made to replace the original equipment directly. That being the case, buy the cheapest available: NOS, Government Surplus, or whatever. New Pistons are (and were) available singly which means you can replace just one if you need to, without even knowing what the other 5 were. They would not do that if what I've said weren't true. If there is someone out there who can tell what brand of piston is in an old Plymouth by driving it, I'd like to meet them.

I think the government buys good stuff even if it is the commercially available stuff. NOS stuff is very likely American made and very likely good stuff. They buy NOS stuff at clearance prices, regular stuff at regular wholesale prices and they could be foreign made. Piston rings are like the pistons, they are commodities. Which means there are not a lot of variations even between brands or countries manufacturing them. For the street NOS stuff is plenty good enough and I'd look for it. If you want premium stuff and are willing to pay big bucks for it there are any number of custom manufacturers who would love your business. I'd say have a look at the beautiful pistons and rods offered by Tony Smith. At least one of my treasures is going to get a set. Hold on to your wallet cause they are $2,600+ and worth it! Everybody wants a 230 23" engine because of the torque (or a 265 25") but that longer stroke comes at a price. Piston speed goes up with the longer stroke. Tony's rods & pistons are lighter so the driver will want to rev higher which makes the problem even worse. You will note that he has had the piston skirts coated and lengthened the rods to accommodate the piston speed. (longer rods have a smaller angle of pivot at the piston and therefore less piston rock at the top and bottom. Piston speed is the speed of the piston in the middle of the stroke. Lengthen the stroke and the piston speed goes up) More information than the average person can process I am sure. For the street keep it simple, these cars have been around a long long time because as the ads say "Plymouth builds Great Cars". They aren't over-powered but you can put a lot of happy miles on them.

Silv-O-Lite pistons used to be made in Carson City, NV (just like Mallory Ignition) but they are now made in Mexico. Keith Black is a brand of their's. The KB pistons are a cast type made with an advanced alloy which supposedly approaches the forged alloys for strength. For my money, for a street car I don't think you can do much better than the government surplus pistons from VPW, provided they have your size. Same thing with the rings. As odd as it seems I've seen engine parts made in India that were first rate quality. If you will pay for quality you can get it there. Remember they have the bomb so they are capable of very high standards. I've seen pistons being made and it's not rocket science. The alloys are well known and there isn't enough difference between brands to worry about. Your machine shop is going to hone the bores to fit each piston anyway. In the old days machine shops used to get "semi-finished" pistons then grind them to the size they needed. Which allowed to them "recycle" used ones as well. I had two Van Norman model 101 piston grinders which had a rocking table and a cam master like a camshaft grinder to put the oval "cam ground" shape to the skirt of the piston. I rebuilt one of them for use as a "between centers" grinder when I manufactured turbocharger turbine wheels.

Okay on the sector you are adjusting the engagement of the gears. Too tight and they bind too loose and there’s slop which causes the car to wander. on steering shaft you are adjusting the roller bearing preload. Again too tight and the steering effort is too high too loose and the car really wanders! Seems the bearings are more important than the sector. To get the best fit you do the bearings first with sector out. Then put the sector in and fit it. As I said while you have sector out you can change the seal.

I haven’t had a Plymouth box apart but have done a 1952-54 Ford F 100 Gemmer box. I modified it to fit a model A then totally rebuilt it with all new gears & bearings. When the bearings are new the bottom bearing ring extends beyond the housing a little, that’s how you preload them. You select a number of gaskets (thick and thin) till there is no slop in the bearings and just the slightest drag. To check an existing box you tug on the steering wheel to see if there’s any slop. Next you can drop in the sector and adjust it up and down with the adjustment on top. If you dial it too tight they bind so just less than binding. My steering box is leaking from the lower sector seal, so my procedure will be to pull the pitman arm then take sector out the top with the cover. The seal can be changed and the steering shaft bearing preload checked. drop in the sector and give it a feel and adjust as needed.

Wow! Three posts in a row that taught me something! I agree about the Model A advice. If you don’t pull the cable all you have is neutral. I don’t believe you can harm the O.D. That’s why it’s best to maintain your handbrake, parking in gear won’t keep it from rolling. Back in the 1960s my Dad had a business partner who favored Plymouths (not Howard Hughes unfortunately) and he had just washed his car and went inside to get ready for a date. When he came out the car was gone. About a block away he found it upside down in the middle of an intersection. Note to self always set the hand brake! I have a bunch of those cheap Chinese Bosch knock off relays, so I will try one. The thing I like about them is you can get sockets for them so in the dark you don’t have do wiring by the Braille method. The sockets come with 14 gauge pigtails so you have to change the load two to 10 gauge. I am going to find a source for the throttle switches, thanks for the information!

One has to remember before the war torque wrenches were not that common, so there was no need for torque specs. lol And a few years earlier measurements were given in factions of an inch because micrometers were not common. Between Henry Leland (Cadillac & Lincoln founder) and Henry Ford “Armory Practice” was brought to automobile production as it had been to the firearms industry. They had to for mass production to work. Highly stressed aircraft parts were the only things that needed carefully torqued fasteners. If you go back to the mid 1950s car magazines you will start to see advertisements for torque wrenches, not so much before.

I just got an email which said I needed to refresh my account on this website. Of course it had a button for you to click for your convenience. Never, ever click on a button in a email! This triggers the installation of malware on your device. Just delete it!

I have an Overdrive apart right now and another member is having issues with his. He believes it is a noise that is coming from the planetary gear set. Those small gears can fail and tear up the sun and ring gear. If you catch it before it fails you might save the other parts. the main difference (in photos) between an R10 and an R11 is an extra planet gear. 3 vs 4. so the thought was how about making 4 planet planetarys for the R10? Today I went to a friend with a machine shop who makes complicated parts like that. Other than a helical cut (matching the sun gear) he didn’t see much of a problem. The gears of course can be made. We are looking at whether an improved part might have a market. on another matter. We have all noticed the outrageous prices for Overdrive relays and that has been given as a reason to not bother with installing an Overdrive properly. I found that the Bosch style” cube relays can be had in 6 volt and with a fuse plugged into the top! The relay comes with a 30 amp fuse which you should change to a 20. I’ve only found one supplier so far out of the UK but even so at $19 the price is very attractive. This type of relay has a huge verity of uses plus there are some heavy amperage relays available cheap too, all in 6 volt. Next on my hit list are throttle switches. One joker has a mopar branded switch and it’s bracket listed for $265! What he doesn’t know is that the carburetor has to have the proper lever for it to work. I bought a new carburetor that had everything but the switch for less than half what that guy wants and then found a switch for a Studebaker for $30. There’s no reason for price gouging.

The quickest easiest way to determine what donor car has the ratio you want is to go to oldmoparts.com and look at the range of mopars that use the same 3rd member gasket. Then google the question “what final drive ratio does a 1956 DeSoto have?” Or something like that. Then go to ebay and search 1956 Desoto rear axle. I found 4 candidates in 5 minutes and all you had to do is ask if the car had an automatic. BTW I was looking for a 3.54 to 1 ratio.

So this thread got me thinking about turn signal switches. I started looking at what the suppliers are selling. Speedway Motors, Mac’s Auto Parts, Summit Racing are not selling genuine Signal-Stat turn signal switches. They are selling clones. I couldn’t get the napaonline site to show a photo but the description says Signal Stat. Amazon sells all of them, good and bad. Ebay has both the good and the bad too. Snyders Antique Auto is still my favorite supplier of this item. Their online catalog takes a while to find it if you go page by page. So I typed “turn signal” in the search bar and got there in a moment.

I bought a Signal-Stat 900 from Syndersantiqueauto which was intended by them to go on a Model A Ford. I put it on a 64 IH Travelall which came with a Mopar turn signal switch which was unavailable at any price. I was pleasantly surprised at how robust it was and resolved that I would never put up with anything less. My 49 Bus Coupe has something that sort of works most of the time, so I will be replacing it with a Signal-Stat as soon as I can get around to it. I would not buy a clone. It has to be the real thing! Amazon has the real thing for $69 (seems high for just the switch) and the clone for $24. Snyders has a kit with all you need for $80 NAPA and your favorite truck supply have them too. I will be getting mine from Snyders. The Signal-Stat 900 comes in chrome or black. The four way flasher works by a chrome (not a red plastic button) pull under the lever. These things are really built! The kit from Snyders had a foreign made flasher that refused to work so I tossed it for the original IH unit and that was my only complaint. The Snyders kit comes with their instructions and should you lose them you can down load them from their site. Don't be a cheap skate get the good one, you'll thank me later. lol

Okay so all the recommendations say GL-1 gear lube for Overdrive transmissions. We know that. However, based on my experiences GL-1 gear lube may be fine but it's pretty dated and it's thick or heavy. Thick or heavy oils run hotter than thinner oils. I've read that and proven it to myself. I have an Overdrive transmission all apart on my bench and I have not found anything inside that would have a problem with any good lube save the sprag clutch and perhaps the balk ring. So where is my thinking going here? My experience with manual transmissions with sprag clutches (freewheeling) dates to the 1956-80 SAAB 93,95,96 & 97 models. The factory was all over the map on gear lubes. 90wt was the first spec, then it was discovered that it ran hot (or it was discovered 75wt ran cooler - pick one). Nobody had 75wt gear lube (it's like water thin) so the factory had to sell it and hated doing it. The last spec was 30wt engine oil which actually worked the best of all. The SAAB had a freewheel lock out, which many owners used and simply forgot about freewheeling. By doing so for extend periods (years) crud would build up in the freewheel unit and when someone wanted to use it, it would slip. A fix I came up with was to drain the gear lube and refill with ATF. Almost immediately the freewheel worked perfectly. I'd have the customer drive the car normally for a week then drain it and refill with 30wt motor oil. An added benefit was that if an overhaul was needed, the inside would be razor clean. I noted that Mercedes-Benz (at the time) used ATF in their manual transmissions. Okay back to Overdrive. The shop manual says NO Hypoid gear lube. I can understand that. The SAAB used an "on center" pinion gear so we never considered hypoid gear lube. For racing we used Redline Synthetic Transmission gear lube and we always used the freewheel. Never had any problems. So what if you used ATF to clean the Overdrive and refilled with say 10-30wt Synthetic Motor Oil (such as Mobil 1) or Redline? Would anyone's head explode if I did it?

You know I don't know about a cable shifter. I do know the 1940 was the first column shifter and the cluster and 2nd gear will fit in the 1941-56 transmissions (perhaps more years but my interest lie with the 1949-54 cars) The 1939 and earlier had a floor shifter and the transmission was different. My current project is an Overdrive transmission overhaul with a 1940 second gear. Report will follow.

If the wrecking yard car is a 1940, you might want to grab that transmission. 40s have the only optional 2nd gear ratio. The cable is nice but also get the relay and carburetor bracket and kick down switch. I always look in the trunk, sometimes treasures lurk there.

What gets me all "agro" (as my kids call it) are huge wheels with tiny brakes inside. If you are serious about giant brakes then the wheels should just barely fit. 12.1 inch rotors qualify because with the calipers you'll need 16s or even 18s. I know I rail on disc brakes but usually they are not much of an improvement because the ones chosen are too small, so why do it? And most folks have it in their mind that universally disc brakes will make you stop better, which is not always true. My logic has been if 10 inch drums work, 11 inch drums will work better and 12 inch drums will work better still. Mr Adams' project is certainly ambitious! And I will wager it works too. What I've learned is that 11 inch DeSoto drums will fit Plymouth wheels but 12 inch Chryslers will not. If you go shopping for 12 inch Chryslers get the wheels too. What I am trying to do with my ride is to put together not the most modern or even the best car but one a dealer mechanic in the 1950s would have built for himself. So far Tim Kingsbury has the best example of the car I want and it has a story behind it. It seems his Grandmother ordered it new with all the good parts! Now that's a gal I'd like to have met!

When it comes to brakes, disc or drum if the objective is to get some kind of improvement, then I believe wheels will be changed and it will be voluntary or involuntary. In brakes bigger is always better (on the front at least). Late model cars are going to 16, 18 even 20 inch wheels to accommodate those big brakes. However, if you want to keep a stock look I've learned (the hard way) that you can change to an aftermarket wheel for clearance then cover it up with Mopar accessory full wheel covers of the period. That's doable even if it seems illogical. Why would a car have expensive full wheel covers if it came with equipment delete panels everywhere? I mean my 3 passenger coupe was the cheapest of the low priced Plymouths, so cheap that they even left out six seat springs then offered two different kits to put them back in! Trust me I am actively looking for seat springs of all things! The best purist solution to the wheel/big brake issue is to find Chrysler or Imperial wheels. They fit over 12 inch drums and likely any disc brake. We know they fit the Plymouth because Lee Petty said that's what he used. (with the 8.70 x 15 tires as well) When you commit to an old car, you either have the skills (and tools) to maintain it or you aspire to them. My experience professionally came way after my 49 Plymouth's era (my ownership experience dates in the 1970s) so I am one of those who aspire to the skills needed to maintain my car. The Lockheed style brakes do require a certain amount of knowledge to maintain but once acquired it isn't going to leave you. In fact if one did learn what is needed to make Lockheed Brakes work and applied it to Bendix Brakes, they'll work better too so it's not a wasted effort.

I don't have disc brakes, I have 12 inch Chrysler Drum Brakes but I ran into the same problem. There's this one little spot that hits the drum before the wheel seats on the drum flange. You can look for some Chrysler wheels or better yet some Imperial wheels or you can do what I did. I ordered some U.S. Wheels from Summit Racing which have a 3.5 inch back space and are 6 inches wide. I had to drill a hole for the line up pin on the stock Mopar drums and they don't have the small diameter centering hole for the hub register on the drum but they will work because the lug bolts center the wheels. Finally because there is no accommodation for the original hub caps I decided to use original Mopar accessory full wheel covers. The problem is the wheels I choose are not stocked, they have to be made for you and it takes 6 weeks. If I did it again, I would call U.S. Wheel directly (714)892-0021 Their web site www.uswheel.com has a lot of information. Ideally if you could find Chrysler wheels you could snap your dog dish hub caps on. The Imperial wheels I believe were 6.5 inches wide. These are the ones Lee Petty used on his 49 Coupe for NASCAR. In stead of the 6.40 x 15 tires he was using 8.70 x 15 tires with a 4.3 to 1 final drive ratio. You might google him for a photo of what they look like. When I put the U.S. Wheels on my Coupe with the 205/75/15s that were on the original wheels they fill up the wheel wells more and make the car look lower. The steering effort when parking seems only slightly greater if at all.

Three good answers in a row. We have gotten so used to parts made with tight tolerances that we forget some of the adjustments that can be made for production variations. Most mechanics (if they ever knew) are loathe to change an adjustment because if they were wrong then they think it might be trouble to "get back" to the starting point. One thing that I learned was that small incremental changes don't tell you enough for you to decide which direction right or wrong you are going. So I make a big change in adjustment and see what the result is. If you're wrong it's clearly wrong. If it gets better then you're on the right track. Tiny changes yield no useful information because you could be going the wrong way in tiny increments. A quick check to see if a master cylinder push rod is adjusted right (this should be done whenever a master is changed) is to look into the M.C. reservoir, push the brake pedal and see if the relief port gushes fluid when released. If it doesn't or if it is a feeble gush then the brakes will lock. If the pedal doesn't return all the way every time (weak spring, friction etc.) then the brakes may lock once in a while. I would question the mechanic and ask what they did in the past to fix the problem, if they say they bleed the brakes then this is the problem. I've seen brakes lock from a dropped nut that landed in the linkage to the M.C.

In another lifetime ago I was in the Turbocharger business. We had a manual from AiResearch that explained the different methods of how to clean exhaust housings, bearing housings and turbine wheels. Since we did huge amounts of parts and were spending a lot of capital on the labor intensive job of cabinet blasting with aluminum oxide grit, new ideas were most welcome. I was tasked with writing a report evaluating what we could do. As I read through their suggestion for a sodium bath, I came to the conclusion they were putting us on. The beginning of the article sounded like a reasonable recipe but then it kept getting more and more ridiculous. What they were talking about was a bath of molten sodium metal. I remember high school chem class and the demonstrations with sodium metal. To do that kind of work would require a huge industrial infrastructure with incredible safety requirements that even an OEM like AiResearch would have struggle with. I really didn't want to present my report because management was convinced that AiResearch knew what they were talking about. If I told them AR was pulling our leg they wouldn't have it. Finally I just said that the method suggested required too large of a capital investment for the volume we were doing and that cabinet blasting was still more cost effective. Happily they accepted my eval and we moved on.

The hydraulic parts for DPCD cars with the Lockheed system are the same year for year. A 1949 Plymouth 10 inch drums uses the same wheel cylinders as a 1949 Chrysler with 12 inch drums. Shoes & drums come in 10, 11 & 12 inch sizes as measured by contact surface inside the drum. www.oldmoparts.com has a nice online catalog which shows the interchange of the various parts, that may clear up the confusion.

In another lifetime I worked in a large combination dealership. (Oldsmobile, SAAB and Fiat) One day it was slow and I had to work on an Olds. This car had the water pump flange come off and put the fan through the radiator. Of course all 5 belts went flying and were gone. So I went to parts and told them what I needed and the first question was "Do you have the old belts?" "No" "Then you're in trouble." "Don't you have a belt chart?" "GM doesn't have those." It seems the General makes so many different combinations they don't even bother with keeping track of what they put on each car! Without the old belt, the counterman had to give me his best three guesses of what might fit one belt at a time. He hated it and I really hated it. I understand the point set frustration. The cars that I worked on had Bosch distributors which for the most part were pretty good. However, you could never trust any photo in the parts book because every point set could be found in a mirror image of the one you needed. Bosch point sets came in a bubble card package not a box so you could see what you were getting without ripping apart the packaging.

Before you pick up a wrench, do your homework on this site. I draw your attention to "Educate me on wheels and tires (Hubs and axles)" by RacerX 20th of November. It's about three pages in. When you think you can avoid all the potential pitfalls of such a project then race on and report back to us. Besides I believe you're asking in regards to a pickup, you might want to ask in the pickup forum.