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Posted

QUOTE=greg g;157950]Make one of these set it to the interior diameter of your drum less the clearence, then use it to adjust the shoes to touch all the way around, then put your drum back on. I have also seen a drum with a slit cut in it so a feeler gauge could be inserted through it to set an circumforencially ( go a head look it up in your funk and wagnells)equal gap around the shoes.

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http://members.shaw.ca/rjsill/tech.htm

With this homemade tool, designed to mimic the aamco and miller lockheed adjustment tools, how is the adjustment performed?

Do you take a measurement with this, of the drums inside, then install on the spindle and adjust major and minor brake adjusters to create a good fit.

I want to make one of these tools, but am not sure if they can used as the Miller or aamco tools, or does it kinda work like those tools.

Can someone please explain the procedure, my brakes need to be adjusted properly as they never were, since I rebuilt the whole system.......Thanx Fred

Posted

I made a simular tool out of metal several years ago. I use mine to make sure the shoes are adjusted evenly from heel to toe, shoe to shoe by making changes on both the minor and major brake adjusters. First, with the drum on, I would adjust the shoes as close as possible, then pull the drum and use the tool to make sure the shoes had the same clearences from heel to toe. Had to redo several times, but worked well for me and my brakes work great.

Hope this helps.

Posted

Mine looks like the wooden one except I have a steel arm that is ground flat so that I know if the shoe cocked. My method is the same as stated above. Adjust the major adjustment with the drum on untill the shoe rubs then take the drum off. Using the tool adjust the shoes so they are the same as the max diameter established prevous. Takes a few goes but works really well and its cheep. More money for chrome. :)

Posted

Firedome,

I looked at the picture of your brake setup. I noticed that you have the smounting spring anti rattle at the top of the shoe. Is this correct. I would think that this would hinder the outward movement of the top of the shoe since this is where the piston pushes the top of the shoes against the drum.

On my 39 Desoto these are at the bottom near the eccentric and there is very little movement of the shoe at the heel and there would be more movement at the toe.

What are your thoughts.

Also I do have the Ammco tool gage

Rich Hartung

Posted
Firedome,

I looked at the picture of your brake setup. I noticed that you have the smounting spring anti rattle at the top of the shoe. Is this correct. I would think that this would hinder the outward movement of the top of the shoe since this is where the piston pushes the top of the shoes against the drum.

On my 39 Desoto these are at the bottom near the eccentric and there is very little movement of the shoe at the heel and there would be more movement at the toe.

What are your thoughts.

Also I do have the Ammco tool gage

Rich Hartung

His setup matches that in the manual for my 1933 Plymouth.

tf20021231-02.jpg

Posted

This is the one I made, I like metal more than wood. I've adjusted these brakes without this tool, but it's time consuming and more of a "touchy / feelly" process that still makes you wonder if it's right. At least with some sort of tool, you have a way to know where the shoes are set.

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  • Like 1
Posted

Gotta thank you for you opinion, this was first posted on a msn group site that I started called all mopar, but that has since vanished.

I must say that when I posted on this site, I had more negitive feedback than positive, or maybe it was the way it was worded. I'm not an engineer by any means, but what works....works, and i refuse to argue the issue.

That being said, if there's interest, I'll build another and go through the process step by step and post pics, then auction the finished product to interested forum members, for the benefit of this forum. Probally would need help setting up an auction, though.

I did modify the orginal tool by using an adjustable rod instead of tubing so this can also be used on the front brakes.

Common tools, a few bits of metal, and a cheap welder.

Posted

Gentleman and Ladies,

As I have stated in previous posts I have the Ammco brake gage and also the Miller MTC 19 brake tool with the various sleeves. Also look at the post i in the Technical Archives regarding both of these tools.

I will rent out the ammco tool to the members but I need a desposit on the tool. I use part of your deposit to insure the tool and also for the sending of the tool in the mail. When you are done with the tool then you send it back to me also insured for the same amount.

If the tool is retuned in good condition and is not broken then you get the reminaing money back from your deposit.

If you do not return the tool then I get the deposit money and you will have messed up the loan process. This is very simple and I have done this serval times.

If you look on Ebay the Ammco tool lists for around $400. So if you want to use the proper tool then contact me.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Posted
Gentleman and Ladies,

As I have stated in previous posts I have the Ammco brake gage and also the Miller MTC 19 brake tool with the various sleeves. Also look at the post i in the Technical Archives regarding both of these tools.

I will rent out the ammco tool to the members but I need a desposit on the tool. I use part of your deposit to insure the tool and also for the sending of the tool in the mail. When you are done with the tool then you send it back to me also insured for the same amount.

If the tool is retuned in good condition and is not broken then you get the reminaing money back from your deposit.

If you do not return the tool then I get the deposit money and you will have messed up the loan process. This is very simple and I have done this serval times.

If you look on Ebay the Ammco tool lists for around $400. So if you want to use the proper tool then contact me.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Rich,

How much is your deposit fee?

It will help all of us know up front how much $$$ it is to rent/use your two helpful brake tools.

Bob

Posted

In all reality you can use anything to get the brake shoes concentric with the hub. I used that plastic device and it worked great! And if you get that inner brakes shoes concentric with the hub than that's all you need to do. I chalked my shoes just to make sure they were hitting the brake drum in order to make sure that the shoes were making good contact with the outer surface of the brake drum itself. Simple and works!

Posted
Rich,

How much is your deposit fee?

It will help all of us know up front how much $$$ it is to rent/use your two helpful brake tools.

Bob

I ask for $300 deposit on the tool. This does sound high but take in the fact that I am not persaonl friends with everyoen and also that I am shipping to the tool to you on good faith that it will be returned then figure that if the tool was not returned I would still then have to shell out another 100 plus to get another tool than this is fair price.

It costs around 12-20 dollars to ship the tool insuresed for $300 so in all it costs you with toatal shipping $25 dollars. This is not a bad fee to get you brakes adjusted properly.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Posted

I worked as a Marine Machinist and aligned so many pump to motors that I couldn't even begin to count over my career. True I never used a plastic tube device but it works the same as anything other alignment tool you might just use. We had to align coupling on the horizontal and vertical plains to .005" or less. So I think I know a little bit about alignment of simple brake shoes. :cool:Jon

Posted
Rich,

How much is your deposit fee?

It will help all of us know up front how much $$$ it is to rent/use your two helpful brake tools.

Bob

This is one thing that being a member of a local club or region of a national club that has this type of vehicle make sense: That can give you a local place to borrow a specialty tool.

The Golden State Region of the POC has a tool loan section on the web site with two different people offering to load drum pullers and one offering to loan the AMCO brake adjust tool. All these are listed as "local loan" only so that does not do you much good.

I see that you are in the Seattle area. Not sure how many members there are in the Cascade Pacific Region of the POC in your area but there might be some. Who knows, maybe there is one available for loan in your area.

Posted

I believe this can be done, I just did a feel/hear adjustment on the brakes, until I can get a tool or make a tool to align. But I have a great brake pedal now, probably not contacting all the way around, but a very good pedal, and stopping ability....

Posted
I believe this can be done, I just did a feel/hear adjustment on the brakes, until I can get a tool or make a tool to align. But I have a great brake pedal now, probably not contacting all the way around, but a very good pedal, and stopping ability....

You don't have to use these 2 brake tools if you don't have them. On the front brakes point the arrows to the wheel cylinders and on the rears point the arrows to each other and adjust the minor adjusters till the shoes drag slightly and drive the car a few hundred miles and re-adjust again-firmness of the brakes will get better and better as you keep re-adjusting the shoes as required to get a firm good pedal!. And, yes Fred, as you have proven, you don't absolutely have to use the ammco or Miller tool. to get your car up and going with out any special tool.

Bob

Posted
You don't have to use these 2 brake tools if you don't have them. On the front brakes point the arrows to the wheel cylinders and on the rears point the arrows to each other and adjust the minor adjusters till the shoes drag slightly and drive the car a few hundred miles and re-adjust again-firmness of the brakes will get better and better as you keep re-adjusting the shoes as required to get a firm good pedal!. And, yes Fred, as you have proven, you don't absolutely have to use the ammco or Miller tool. to get your car up and going with out any special tool.

Bob

Hi Bob, this exactly how I adjusted the brakes from the beginning, the front anchor bolt arrows pointed toward the wheel cyls, the back pointed to each other.

And I have adjusted the brakes as you have mentioned, by the minor adjusters. Yes the pedal is good, and brakes good too.

But I am not sure my shoes will be wearing evenly, with the major adjusters and minor adjusters done in sync the 1st time together. Is my thinking correct.

What I mean is this, for a major adjustment, you adjust both toe and heal, with both major and minor adjusters, then minor adjustments are performed periodically.

But if I do not adjust the major anchor bolt adjusters the 1st time, will the shoes not wear a bit unevenly, or will this as you mention wear-in, then keep adjusting with the minor adjusters for maintenance.

I think these brakes when set-up correctly work great, especially in flat land, and lighter traffic,lower speed condition. These brakes slow my car down quick.

Posted
Hi Bob, this exactly how I adjusted the brakes from the beginning, the front anchor bolt arrows pointed toward the wheel cyls, the back pointed to each other.

And I have adjusted the brakes as you have mentioned, by the minor adjusters. Yes the pedal is good, and brakes good too.

But I am not sure my shoes will be wearing evenly, with the major adjusters and minor adjusters done in sync the 1st time together. Is my thinking correct.

What I mean is this, for a major adjustment, you adjust both toe and heal, with both major and minor adjusters, then minor adjustments are performed periodically.

But if I do not adjust the major anchor bolt adjusters the 1st time, will the shoes not wear a bit unevenly, or will this as you mention wear-in, then keep adjusting with the minor adjusters for maintenance.

I think these brakes when set-up correctly work great, especially in flat land, and lighter traffic,lower speed condition. These brakes slow my car down quick.

Fred, When old our MoPar cars were new and shipped from the factory the arrows were positioned as said earlier. Now you must understand all the shoe webs and shoe lining thicknesses/drum diameters were all at a set factory standard that the factory engineered for all the new cars. Also remember that the factory new drum diameters were all at the new spec's !0/11/or 12" no over sizes so that meant that the brake anchors would all be set the in the same positions as all new tolerances were the same from the factory in most all instances. A lot of the aftermarket supplied shoes/linings were not manufactured to the same exacting factory dimensions. Also the drums wore to a larger diameter or were machined to a larger diameter after complete brake overhauls. This is where it was necessary in a lot of cases to do both major and minor adjustments for a good firm/high pedal(for 100% customer satisfaction)-IF the proper tools were available! At times these tools weren't available at some repair shops.

Another thing that usually isn't/wasn't done was to measure the drum diameter and then machine arc the shoes to match the drum diameter BEFORE doing a major adjustment.

If the shoe radius doesn't match the drum diameter you can never get the full face of the brake lining to be centered/adjusted properly to fit the oversized drum with any of the ammco or miller tools!

And yes, if the shoes aren't centered/adjusted to the drums, yes they will wear at the toe or heel prematurely-depending on lining thickness or drum over size diameter. Wouldn't worry bout that-Just check the shoe wear pattern after a few hundred miles to see were they are hitting and then adjust the anchors just a tad bit-all this for if you don't want to deal with making or buying the special brake tools. These double anchor Lockheed brakes don't automatically produce a hard pedal after a reline like all the more modern cars because the shoes are not free to float and center in the brake drums.

Bob

Posted
Fred, When old our MoPar cars were new and shipped from the factory the arrows were positioned as said earlier. Now you must understand all the shoe webs and shoe lining thicknesses/drum diameters were all at a set factory standard that the factory engineered for all the new cars. Also remember that the factory new drum diameters were all at the new spec's !0/11/or 12" no over sizes so that meant that the brake anchors would all be set the in the same positions as all new tolerances were the same from the factory in most all instances. A lot of the aftermarket supplied shoes/linings were not manufactured to the same exacting factory dimensions. Also the drums wore to a larger diameter or were machined to a larger diameter after complete brake overhauls. This is where it was necessary in a lot of cases to do both major and minor adjustments for a good firm/high pedal(for 100% customer satisfaction)-IF the proper tools were available! At times these tools weren't available at some repair shops.

Another thing that usually isn't/wasn't done was to measure the drum diameter and then machine arc the shoes to match the drum diameter BEFORE doing a major adjustment.

If the shoe radius doesn't match the drum diameter you can never get the full face of the brake lining to be centered/adjusted properly to fit the oversized drum with any of the ammco or miller tools!

And yes, if the shoes aren't centered/adjusted to the drums, yes they will wear at the toe or heel prematurely-depending on lining thickness or drum over size diameter. Wouldn't worry bout that-Just check the shoe wear pattern after a few hundred miles to see were they are hitting and then adjust the anchors just a tad bit-all this for if you don't want to deal with making or buying the special brake tools. These double anchor Lockheed brakes don't automatically produce a hard pedal after a reline like all the more modern cars because the shoes are not free to float and center in the brake drums.

Bob

Hi Bob, pulled the drums, had a look at the brakes, looks like even ware, arrows pointing in right direction, on both front and back brakes.

Looks like I gave the major adjusters a bit of outward adjustment to compensate for the drums being slighly oversized.

I did see on 1 of the drums, a measurement that was painted on it,.022 over, was machined a bit, not much to clean them up, no doubt were machined a bit before too.

I then adjusted the minor adjusters, so they just barely touched the drums, and cleaned everything out with compressed air.

The MC was full, no leakages detected.

The brakes are very good, pedal high , and very responsive.

I am not sure they are right where they should be for heel and toe, will check this again, when I get a device to check them out.

Thanx Bob, and all for the good advice and ideas.............Fred

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