Question about terminology...

[Uncle-Pekka]

...on body types.

(this popped on my mind after seeing the new town sedan on the slategrove's welcome thread)

My father used to call the body type with three separate side windows per side (like e.g. the regular D24 4D sedan) "six light sedan". He does not speak english, nor does know how to pronounce, yet the way he said it is close to correct english pronounciation. He could not explain the term to me, just told that in fourties they used to call the big sedans that way.

Is that term familiar with you folks? Does anyone call a car with six side windows "a six light sedan"?

[Plymouthy Adams]

not me...but then car terminology has been so misapplied over the years by the industry itself it is had to understand...I think sometimes they like the name more than what the name stands for and thus mis-apply...

I cannot see how a sedan with a rear glass can come up with an even number of windows...usually the bodies are refered to as 3 window, 5 window when describing coupes...as for the sedans...you had two door or four door ...counting of the glass was reference to the coupes as best I know across the industry in the time our cars were built...

[TodFitch]

Never heard that one. I guess the "light" part is in reference to windows as I have heard that term in reference to the glass in house windows.

[greg g]

Back in the 30's there was terminology similar to that and some coupe bodies are differentiated by window or light count. If you have a 32 ford the 3 window is more desireable than the more numerous 5 window. I suppose in MOPAR the Dodge business coupes would be 3 window where the Plymouth would be 5 window. Seems your fathers terminology was based on the mumbers of side windows.

Growing up it was always sedans 2 and 4 door, coupes and business coupes, convertibles, (and earlier roadsters roll up side windows being the deal) and of course station wagons.

Going back to the 1920's there were also touring cars 4 or more seat fabric top cars, and their fancier upscale pheatons and dual cowl pheatons.

Limosines and coach built bodies also had some different terms but for us common working class guys it was usually sedans coupes convertibles and station wagons.

[Don Coatney]

Dont forget hardtop's (no door post on 2 or 4 door cars)

Fastbacks, sloping rear with no defined trunk area.

[thedahmer]

I have heard of the "six light" heard it refered to Chryslers and Packards though-- it refers to the number of side windows--and sometimes the motor--

[PatS....]

I've never heard of "six light", but it does make sense because the factory calls the rear "window" the "backlight"

As for body styles, my dad used to correct me when I called a two door sedan, a sedan...he said it was a coach, sedans have 4 doors, coaches have two.

Some of my research has proved him correct but times do change.

[B-Watson]

The term "light" is actually British. What we, in North America, would call a six window sedan the Brits called it a six light sedan.

And sedan windows were counted in even numbers - four or six. Coupe window count, for some reason, was odd numbers - three or five.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[Uncle-Pekka]

...Coming back to this subject...

 

Happened to find this site today;

http://www.motorera.com/dictionary/si.htm

 

Look at "six.."

" Six-light sedan

An old designation of a four-door body style that features another small quarter window behind the rear side doors, resulting in three side windows per side or six windows overall"

 

Turns out my old man spoke with correct terms after all.

Glad to learn this really is traditional anglo-american expression.

It has appealed to me, sort of glamorous depiction for a full size sedan.

[Uncle-Pekka]

I cannot see how a sedan with a rear glass can come up with an even number of windows...usually the bodies are refered to as 3 window, 5 window when describing coupes...

 

 

Language is a agreement between people as definition...

It does not make any more sense why one should count in the side windows and rear, but count out windshield.

Why not count them all in every case or count just the ones visible on "the profile/silhouette"?

[Plymouthy Adams]

one can and seems has identified cars with side glass count...but again...the actual glass is not being counted proper...and if a PANE is a light then what happens to the side count when the front vent is not enumerated...in your very picture above...there are 8 sidelights...evidently they are only counted the metal frames..not the panes..so if that is the case..then I would classify the car as a 6 garnish sedan

 

order glass for that car using that description and you will come up some 5 pieces of glass short of what you want...

 

from there it is all relative to how you view the object at hand...

Edited March 24, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams

[Uncle-Pekka]

Well, as you see in the MotorEra dictionary I have not invented this term.

However I can easily understand and appreciate the term; "Light" is an opening where through the light can be seen. Same way as in a house, a window may contain several screens.

 

 

Nine windows on the facade of this house, however 4x12 + 5x9 = 93 pcs of glass screens...

Easier to understand to say "nine windows" than count all separate screens?

[Plymouthy Adams]

see...difference in replacing a window in comparison with replacing a pane....nothing is wrong with the term 6 light sedan if all are on the same wave length when the term is applied..

[Mark D]

Architects always refer to glazing panels as lights of glass. It's the way I was taught in school and by my mentors. So Pekka does dad say "six light sedan" or kuusi valo sedan?

[greg g]

21 window vw transporter any one?

[Uncle-Pekka]

Architects always refer to glazing panels as lights of glass. It's the way I was taught in school and by my mentors. So Pekka does dad say "six light sedan" or kuusi valo sedan?

 

 

My father used to call the body type with three separate side windows per side (like e.g. the regular D24 4D sedan) "six light sedan". He does not speak english, nor does know how to pronounce, yet the way he said it is close to correct english pronounciation. He could not explain the term to me, just told that in fourties they used to call the big sedans that way.

Is that term familiar with you folks? Does anyone call a car with six side windows "a six light sedan"?

 

As I wrote in the opening post, he said it like it's pronounced in english in spite he does not speak english. If I would ask him to write it down he'd probably write "siks lait sedan".

I've never heard anyone to say "kuusivalo" in finnish and it does not mean anything in finnish. In finnish we have only "four door sedan"-term "neliovinen", nothing more specific.

During the past 20 years finns have adapted 3W and 5W coupe terms from english, they are used as direct translations "kolmi-ikkuna kupee" and "viis'ikkuna kupee"... But only by car guys in hobby circles, not common language.

 

Thanks Mark for warming me up on this... I have to tell you folks, that US cars were popular and highly valued it finland until end of the 50's. Quite remarkable is that there is only one make that has finnish translation of it's name:

Chevrolet is called "Letukka" in Finland. I suppose it originally came from similar pronouncion. It's also an old slang word for light footed woman..., but that's another story then. Ford comes close, but only because in eastern part of the country they don't use letter "f", but pronounce it "v", same with "d"; it's pronounced "t", thus Ford is "Voorti" in common language. (Finns mostly add "i" in the end of words that would end in a consonant.)

Edited March 26, 2015 by Uncle-Pekka

[Andydodge]

Pekka.......the 4/6 light terms I have always noted to be English or European terms, similar in a way to what the Poms(British) use to refer to Fenders as "wings".......here in Oz they are called mudguards but I use mudguards or fenders as interchangeable terms.......wings are what planes have.........as for the original question....its more a case of counting the doors rather than windows, ie, 4door or 2door sedan.................either way its interesting to see the variation in terminology........regards, andyd

[Uncle-Pekka]

I agree Andy, counting doors is more practical, but IMO "Six-Light Sedan" sounds much more glorious than "four door sedan".

What's more, all 6-L sedans are 4D's, but NOT all 4D's are 6-L's...!

 

As I confess to be a moto-romantic person, the fact that six-light sedan was used in the 1930's by english and american, but obviously since much forgotted gives the term an extra silver lining in my eyes.

I hereby promise to dedicate to rehabilitation of this term from now on.

[Roadkingcoupe]

Never heard that one. I guess the "light" part is in reference to windows as I have heard that term in reference to the glass in house windows.

 

In the boating world, nautical lingo, PORT LIGHTS are the term used for opening and non-opening boat "windows".

They are stilled called port lights today.

[OldDad67]

In the boating world, nautical lingo, PORT LIGHTS are the term used for opening and non-opening boat "windows".

They are stilled called port lights today.

Someone could also be light in their loafers, just an old expression.  

[Andydodge]

I would have thought that "port lights" would only refer to those on the left hand side.........oops.....back in the corner I go..............andyd