Andydodge Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Gidday from Australia, I have a 1940 Dodge Sedan & a 1941 Plymouth Coupe, the Dodge an Oz built D15 model since 1971, the Plymouth since Feb 2007, its a Sth African factory RHD built ASC, both are drivers, the Coupe is getting a 230, I have an Edgy head, Offy twin carb intake,HEI dissy from Tom Langdon, Beehive filter and custom made headers........have a few questions about rebuilding 230's....... 1. Are any pistons other than stock pistons available, if so who from? 2. Are there any benefits from relieving the block around the valves as is done on Ford Flatheads? 3. I want to run an Alternator, but am having trouble trying to work out what yr crank and water pump pully/s are compatable with the thin pullys used on alternators. 4. Any info, tips, etc available on building a decent 230? 5. I am using an Industrial 230, does anyone know where specs for this engine might be found? .......if anyones interested in seeing both cars theres pics on the About Us page on my shop website....... www.scaleautomobilia.com.au thanks.Andy Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Here in the US the cars went to a narrow belt in 51. Those parts should bolt right on to match up to your alternator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48mirage Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 For the pulley match up it might be easier to get a wide pulley for the alternator versus a narrow pulley for the crank and water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Industrial engines are pretty much like their automotive cousins. The Dizzy may lack vacuum advance since most ind engines run at steady rpm, und unless it was set up for propane, it should be the same. Some may have a diffeent cam, again looking at the different rpm range of stationary operation. Several discussions have concluded that relieving is counter productive and not as critical as with the Ford flathead. Check out mmber Blueskie's site as he put together a 230 from a 218 and use an edgerton head also. is intake is a bit different but he is also using the langdon Hei setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob westphal Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 2. Are there any benefits from relieving the block around the valves as is done on Ford Flatheads? All flatheads need improved breathing. Relieve away but remember you are taking away material that will also lower the compression a little. Don't forget to port out the passages. I suggest some use of a flow bench. 4. Any info, tips, etc available on building a decent 230? One thing that many people pass up is lowering the weight of the turning mass. I used a light flywheel/clutch assy with great success. Gives a lot of quicker revs. Also a modified cam is a must in these engines. You might also want to harden the crank as these older cranks were fairly soft and burned bearings with the extra pressure of more cubes, higher revs, and compression. 5. I am using an Industrial 230, does anyone know where specs for this engine might be found? The specs listed in the factory car manual are same. However, my machinist believes that the industial crank is different than the car. Good luck and have loads of fun with these old runners. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockabillybassman Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Recent flow research done on flathead V8s suggests that porting and relieving may actually be detrimental to street engines. There has been some very lengthy threads on this topic on the Hamb recently. While a lot of speculation exists, there are also many posts from folks who know a lot about port turbulence, port characteristics etc. It would be reasonable to assume this would apply to sixes also. Relieving is not necessary on sixes because the valves are not shrouded like they are on Ford V8s, in fact it can be argued that relieving a six could be detrimental due to the loss of compression, which may not be restored by head-milling without flycutting the chamber. Increasing compression is the #1 bang for the buck mod. All other mods fall into the "much expense for small gain" area. Recent thinking with regard to flatheads is that the #1 mod regardless of cost, is supercharging. A supercharger requires lowish compression and no mods to the engine, so is a simple addition. There is a guy in Aussie with a big Chrysler coupe, about 1948, and he runs a supercharger. If you're serious about a strong street motor, then cross-drilling the crank and fitting a full flow lube system are essential, but if you just want a good cruiser, the stuff you've got sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Here is a picture of a relieved block. I believe it came out of a circle track car but I do not have any details on how well it ran. My personal opinion is the increased flow from relieving would not make up for the lost compresion ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 I don't think you will see any great increase at normal operation and only if you have the correct cam ground with extra duration and higher lift will you benefit at all and then only in the high rpm only racing would generate..I think spending the money on other performance enhancers like dual carbs, dual exhaust and HEI ignition would be of greater benefit, more bang for the buck..the design of the valves, intake and updraft to the chamber is all negative in location to the spark plug and cylinder head center. And then, how many here are indexing their plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockabillybassman Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Gee Tim, we always index our plugs, dont we guys? You mean to say you have'nt been doing that? You know you're missing out on 50hp...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lazarus Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hi Andydodge I fitted a late 80's Ford Falcon alternator to my '38, but I already had the narrow pulley's on the engine/water pump. I found that this alternator was a good fit, with only a very simple block required to adapt the anchor points on the alternator to the block. A small "tickle" light is also required to activate the alternator when the engine is running. Send me a PM and I can e-mail you pics (the files are always slightly too large to be uploaded here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted February 10, 2008 Report Share Posted February 10, 2008 Gee Tim, we always index our plugs, dont we guys? You mean to say you have'nt been doing that? You know you're missing out on 50hp...... rockabillybassman; Do you guys in the southern hemosphere index your plugs for clockwise or counterclockwise air flow swirl:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony WestOZ Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 rockabillybassman;Do you guys in the southern hemosphere index your plugs for clockwise or counterclockwise air flow swirl:confused: counterclockwise of course. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Must be in a alternative zone, a got a clockeise and a counterclockwise flushing devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blackstone Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Andy You do great work on your models AND your real rides. I learned a lot just reading your tips. Glad you joined our forum as we have been looking for a long time for a well designed and crafted model of a P-15 or D-24 and you might just be the guy to help us. Please post on a new thread any info you have on the availability or ideas on creating a model. Thanks and Welcome, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted February 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Thanks for all the replies, I have a few more questions but i'll post them separately.........regards, andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockabillybassman Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 BTW; our toilet water does'nt swirl either way..... straight down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel in Oz Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Andy The other day I found out that some of our 230 motors are actually 228's. They have a different B & S. Could they be Kew motors? Manuel in Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Are they long blocks 25 inch head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel in Oz Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 I don't think so. Manuel in Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony WestOZ Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 The 228 is a 25" long block from Canada.Different B & S to the US 23" 230. The "KEW" motors are the 250 cu" motor that came from the Kew plant in England. They were used in Australian cars and trucks from 53 to 62. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted February 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nah, I always go on the length of the head now.....23" is 201/217/230.....25" is 218/228/250.......at least this is here in Oz......the bore is 3.250, so she's a 230......andyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony WestOZ Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Nah, I always go on the length of the head now.....23" is 201/217/230.....25" is 218/228/250.......at least this is here in Oz......the bore is 3.250, so she's a 230......andyd Don`t forget the 201 and 242cu" 25" Canadian long blocks were used here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel in Oz Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Now I'm really confused. Is there a list/chart of the gear used in Oz? Manuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
builtfercomfort Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Don`t forget the 201 and 242cu" 25" Canadian long blocks were used here as well. 1939 Chrysler/DeSoto has a 25" 241 as well - probably other years too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony WestOZ Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 1939 Chrysler/DeSoto has a 25" 241 as well - probably other years too. 241.5 cu" is the correct size, 3 3/8" X 4 1/2" Some round it up (242), some round it down (241). Used in Fargo trucks as well. I have a list somewhere of engines used in OZ, I shall try and find it. Basicly if it was used in the US or Canada it was used here at some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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