Greenhouse gases and old Plymouths....kinda OT

[Mr. Belvedere]

I wonder how long it will be before driving the cars that we do will be made illegal or at least severely restricted. With all this climate talk going on and the government demanding higher fuel effeciancy standards even lawnmowers sold here in CA have to meet certain emission standards. So far the U.S. is the only country not to sign the Kyoto protocol I think eventually we will be dragged into signing it. There are plenty of green freaks who would love nothing more then crushing all these old cars. If you look at how smoking has been restricted and taxed to death then you can see how they could tax DMV registration of old cars and severely restrict there use, under the guise of saving mother earth. Don't misunderstand me I am all for responsible conservation, but all this green crapola is going off the deep end INMHO.

[JerseyHarold]

I agree with what you're saying but, since politics is propelled by money, the combined clout of the various aftermarket, street rod, and collector car organizations should slow the movement considerably if not block it altogether.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would bet that on a given day any fair sized dairy farm has increased the greenhouse effect through cow farts/burps than half the memberships daily driving of these old hoopies..in Norm's case..equal to a lactating mouse.

[Norm's Coupe]

For those worried about pollution laws governing the old car hobby, join SEMA.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I visit their site quite frequent to see what is going on state to state..Lots of activity there...but things are slow to change due to the political side of the coin.

[oldmopar]

worst case it would just be another slight modification just need to hook up a few batteries and maybe some solar cells to charge the batteries. Just not sure what size resistor I will need to run my 6 volt heater and wiper motors

[greg g]

New York has. regardless of all its other flaws, been reluctant to legislate backward. The current situation has been to grandfather things as they were and as the laws reflected things when they were built. some examples are requirements for lighting, as in the single rear stop light, seat belt laws, tiered vehicle inspection laws (old cars are not subject to emissions testing, some older ones are required to have the equipment they were built with but it's not checked for operation. Ecu cars get the full monty, but OBD II (96 and newer) cars are most strigently enforced regarding emmisions. A check engine light on at inspection is a fail.

Currently there is talk of small gas equipment as being more offensive greenhouse gas wise than hobby vehicles. Trimmers, chain saws, lawn mowers, etc will probably see regulation here before antique vehicles. Also marine engines ans stationary and portable equipment is getting looked at.

[Normspeed]

With marine engines, there are a number of lakes in CA where the only outboard motor you can run is a 4 stroke. I have a Nissan (Mercury, Tohatsu) 4 stroke 6 hp outboard and I gotta say, it is the most economical lean running outboard I've ever owned. Unfortunately the lower end oil seal went bad the first year, dumping plenty of gear oil into the lake in place of outboard oil.

[Norm's Coupe]

Currently there is talk of small gas equipment as being more offensive greenhouse gas wise than hobby vehicles. Trimmers, chain saws, lawn mowers, etc will probably see regulation here before antique vehicles. Also marine engines ans stationary and portable equipment is getting looked at.

And after that they will regulate the gas people expel.

[Young Ed]

Just heard from dad after 2012 only pro shops will be able to buy automotive paint. Check the newest hemmings classic car

[PatS....]

They say the world is ending Dec 21, 2012, so it won't matter much:eek:

-from the bed near the window

[HalfdollarMayflower]

Interesting what other states are doing. In 1996, Texas was forced (by the EPA) to conduct smog testing on all vehicles 25 yrs old and newer in metropolitan counties. Speed limits were likewise decreased in said counties to a max of 55 mph.

Eleven years later, emissions testing is still on for 'newer' cars, but the majority of the counties have thumbed their nose at the EPA mandated speed limits. For several months, the city of Houston had an unofficial policy of not writing tickets to speeding motorists on roadways where speed limits had been "artificially" lowered by the Fed regulations. Now speed limits are generally 65 in emission counties and 70-80 in rural counties. I suppose the EPA simply gave up...what good is a "law" if it's purposely not enforced?

For the antique car lover, Texas is a dream. I just got done registering my Plymouth as an "antique"; registration is 50 bucks for 5 years and no inspection is required. Only stipulation is that the car cannot be driven as a 'daily driver'. I even got to use my original 1950 Texas plates!

[Tony Cipponeri]

Here in California they hae all but stopped all of the two stroke motorcycles, allof the new motor crossers are going to four strokes. The air here is way better than it was 25 years ago, but they need it way better than that. I am still smoking, I do know that it is bad for me, but I don't want to give in to the system. I am wondering how long it will be before we will have too keep our cars running under 150 degrees in order to stop global warming. Tony C

[greg g]

Ok so the Orwellians win in this country, and we're forced to give up ou hobby vehicles, cut the grass with you 6000.00 John Deere fuelcell tractor, read your e news paper on the screen of you solar powered extreme "I Everything"

take your house off the grid with acouple wind powered gennys in the back yard, and feel good about your carbon foot print.

Mean while in Africa, folks are wiping out Lowland gorilla habitat, and the gorillas (about 600 left in the world) with it to make charcoal to cook with, China, India, and all the countrys ending in STAN are powwering up coal fired generating plants and soon will look like America's suburbs with 3 vehicles in every drive way, and wekeep shipping our TV, computer, and other electronic waste to what ever emerging country that needs a currency low to have them broken down. Keeping the gold and silver, but releasing the lead, mercury, selinium, and other stuff to the ground or into the processor. What have we gained carbon foot print wise.

We have the technology, resources, and ingenuity to good carbon neutral, but until the underdeveloped world can or does catch up it is pretty much an exercise in futility.

No suggestions or answers, just a rant. Sorry.

Now we gotta go out and celebrate our wretched excess, consumerism, and wanton use of resources by finishing our shopping for the holidays.

Do you relaize that if we all changed over to LED lights for our decorations, it will have the same effect carbon wise, as removing 30,000 diesel engine emissions???? Well are you gonna run right out and change over????

We're not, so I will apologize now for my great great grand kids.

[Norm's Coupe]

As far as I'm concerned, I think all of the pollution laws and alternative products are useless. Look around for yourself. We change something to make it more friendly to man kind and the earth we live on. Then, 6 months to a year down the road, we find the change we made is now causing some other type of pollution that is harmful to the earth and man kind. All we did was shift from one harmful thing to another, and spent a lot of money doing it. Then we spend more money to keep repeating the process over and over.

One of the dumbest pollution laws I know of is that of asphalt sealer disposal, roof coatings etc. They are all considered hazardous waste if you want to dump a partial 5 gallon pail. The reason I have a problem with that law is simple. Everything that went into making that sealer came from the earth to begin with. We lived with it, and even have more in the earth that wasn't removed before it came from the earth, so why can't we after? What's the difference?

That said, while you can't dump that partial 5 gallon pail back into the ground because it's listed as hazardous for dumping. It is perfectly legal to dump tons of asphalt, asphalt sealers, primers, etc. onto the ground for driveways and roads each year. Something is wrong with that type of thinking in my book.

[greg g]

Not to mention the more ground that is paved over, the less there is to absorb rain and sonow melt. Then they wonder why we keep having all these flash floods. the land that is left gets over saturated and that causes crop planting and harvesting problems, which causes.....which leads to......

Each time I go into a store or watch How Its Made, I begin to cringe about the stuff we think we need, and what is consumed in making it using it and disposing of it. We need to simpify. Not suggesting we go back to cork insulated amonia fired fridges but its gettin nuts.

[PatS....]

I was at our local landfill yesterday with a few things the garbage men won't take and beside me pulled in a roll-off truck with a 40 yard bin from a recycling center in a shopping center.

He dumps it and it is FULL of corrugated cardboard that people collected and delivered in the mistaken notion that it wouldn't end up in a land-fill.

Everytime I read about these new regulations, I fell as if they are just blowing smoke up my a$$.

Along with global warming and the war on terror, it won't be long and we will need "papers" from the Gesta...oopps...Government to blow our noses.

Worrisome.

[62rebelP23]

as an employee of a large automotive salvage co i encounter idiosynchrisies (SP?) every DAY. i manage the warehouse, and have to rotate out aged parts and bring in newer items on a daily basis. we also core many parts that are unprofitable to sell as used, and i spend a great deal of time dealing with that. our sister plant is the pick-n-pull, where the older cars are buzzarded to pieces by careless customers. i recently disposed of approximately 6 tons of old window glass, and despite extensive research could not find anyone willing to buy it, take it for free, or what ever. hence, it went to the landfill. now i have plenty of space to store more glass until next time.

i recently began to examine yet another source of danger; AIRBAGS. i have probably 2000 or more aging airbags in stock and the cars for which they were designed (they are pretty much vehicle specific in design) are becoming far and few between on the road. many have removable inflators, but i'm not comfortable with that idea. the label on the back lists sodium azide and boron potassium chloride as the explosive agents and warns against the bags coming into contact with water, acid, heat, etc and so on....

i get the feeling i'm getting a degree in HAZMAT as on the job training.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Mean while in Africa, folks are wiping out Lowland gorilla habitat, and the gorillas (about 600 left in the world) with it to make charcoal to cook with, China, India, and all the countrys ending in STAN

gorilla is a taste between venison and bear meat..not as good as spotted owl..

[Falcon(63)]

regulate gas people expel?????? boy, I would be hurting. If they tax it, I had best be saving my pennies

[PatS....]

as an employee of a large automotive salvage co i encounter idiosynchrisies (SP?) every DAY. i manage the warehouse, and have to rotate out aged parts and bring in newer items on a daily basis. we also core many parts that are unprofitable to sell as used, and i spend a great deal of time dealing with that. our sister plant is the pick-n-pull, where the older cars are buzzarded to pieces by careless customers. i recently disposed of approximately 6 tons of old window glass, and despite extensive research could not find anyone willing to buy it, take it for free, or what ever. hence, it went to the landfill. now i have plenty of space to store more glass until next time.

i recently began to examine yet another source of danger; AIRBAGS. i have probably 2000 or more aging airbags in stock and the cars for which they were designed (they are pretty much vehicle specific in design) are becoming far and few between on the road. many have removable inflators, but i'm not comfortable with that idea. the label on the back lists sodium azide and boron potassium chloride as the explosive agents and warns against the bags coming into contact with water, acid, heat, etc and so on....

i get the feeling i'm getting a degree in HAZMAT as on the job training.

I don't much have a problem with it going into landfill, BUT, if they put it all in one place, as in your example, all the glass, bury it in one spot. One day it WILL be economical to recycle and then they would know where it was. All the wood in one spot, all the metal etc etc

OR, make the manufacturers take it back via a deposit like bottles. Maybe GM should be the ones figuring out what to do with thousands of airbags, and Ford and Honda etc, not you.

[62rebelP23]

the UK and the ECU have what they call "end of life" legislation where the manufacturer IS responsible for the unrecyclable remnants of every product made. think of the price gouging OUR companies would do in response to that!

the Gorilla, spotted Owl, and every other thing that walks, crawls, or flies is pretty much fair "game" in the rest of the world. for instance, there is an animal called a Pangolin in Asia, sort of a cross between an armadillo and an anteater, very slow reproducing animal, about the size of a collie, and very slow moving. so of course it's in every Chinese food market as a staple food item. Africans kill and eat every animal they see, including Apes and monkeys; so do South American natives. we Western types pretty much limit our appetite to hoofed critters and large birds and various fish, with occasional ventures into venison etc.

it's not a joke to accuse Asian restaurants of serving dog and cat IMHO.

there's no need for dog pounds in Asia or Africa......

[greg g]

Well in the case of the low land Gorillas, they are just killing them and leaving them where they are killed. They just don't want them around when they clear cut the forests, neusance animals. Being that thier DNA is about 98% the same as ours, well just don't like to see anything killed just cause its inconvenient.

[eric wissing]

"it's not a joke to accuse Asian restaurants of serving dog and cat IMHO.

there's no need for dog pounds in Asia or Africa......"

Cats and dogs were never a traditional meal until the Revolution. Starving forced them to eat anything. Now it is trendy. You pick out your cat or dog from a cage like we would pickout a lobster and they boil them alive. I think life of any sort can be cheap in China. I wouldn't want anyone to starve but cruelty doesn't seem to be a concern there. Eric

[62rebelP23]

i have this recurring image of the return of the Christ.... he stands there, looking around at the sheer mass of people, and asks "where's my animals? what did you do? EAT them all? and where did all you people COME from? when i LEFT there were maybe a million or so of you. what have you been doing for the last two thousand years? screwing like GOATS?"