1946 Chrysler Windsor running issues

[SeasonedNewbie]

Just to give an update, and to say how much I appreciate you guys arriving with advice. 

 

It was definitely points. A badly repaired wire adjacent to the points got them snagged. Everything is cleaned up, routed properly and happily ticking. 

 

I found the best gap setting was done with a dwell meter. I'm at 37 degrees which I believe is in spec. (Actually toward the high end, I may try for less)

 

One other question, how far to one side do you guys have the timing setting under the distributor body, the major adjustment? I shifted mine away from center to allow more advance at the adjustment control arm. I used a vacuum gauge to set the timing that way. I feel like it would tolerate more but i can't get to the major adjuster with the distributor in place. 

Edited December 20 by SeasonedNewbie

[greg g]

I haven't  gone through all the responses, but it haven't been suggested yet, you might want to do a vacuum gauge timing procedure.  Second Chance garagehas a good how to on this technique.  This uses intake manifold to find the optimum spot for your car's operating conditions.   You did mention you corrected some issues inside the distributor  .  There is a wire connecting the points to the breaker plate.  This is a snort many stranded flexible that allows the breaker to rotate freely from centrifugal  and vacuum inputs.  Many folks have found that wire in bad condition,  insulation missing, broken strands, and or replaced by wire that is too thick to be as flexible  as needed.  Napa supposedly has replacements of various  lengths.

[SeasonedNewbie]

I used the vacuum method to set the time, it's the easiest way I've found. At the moment, it still acts like the dwell keeps changing. It might be time to totally disassemble the distributor and see what's up. I will check out Napa to see about the wire, it could do with better. 

[FarmerJon]

It is almost easier to pull the whole distributor, than to install points with it in the car. The distributor drive is a tab, so you cannot get it "one tooth off", just right or 180* out.

Once out you can get a better idea of whats going on. I would check that the advance plate can freely move, and that your vacuum advance isn't leaking. 

[SeasonedNewbie]

I did pull the distributor, I've gotten pretty comfortable with that procedure. I did change the major setting to give myself more advance at the other setting but I feel like it will tolerate more before there's knocking. 

 

The mechanical advance seems to be working though the vacuum advance is disconnected, there's a hole in the line. And I think maybe the vacuum pot could be leaking. I read though the vacuum advance is more of an efficiency tool. I will run a new line though

Edited December 21 by SeasonedNewbie

[SeasonedNewbie]

I was back to rough running today and noticed again the carb was wet. I took it off the car and opened it up. The inside is pretty clean, there's a bit of sediment at the bottom of the float chamber. 

 

I'm not sure of the quality of this carb....

 

I think the float is wrong, it's above the top surface of the float chamber, and I suppose it wants 5/64" to be the gap there. I'm going to lower it. I have read that 1/8" suits the quality of modern fuel to what was used when the book was printed, any truth in that? 

 

Also, the idle jet orifice looks like it's off center with the threaded part. I tried to get a picture but it's doesn't show well the angle of the threads in relation to the hole inside. But it isn't straight through. The idle screw doesn't do much to actually adjust the idle. I can run it all the way down and the engine continues to run. 

 

And, there's a gap between the throttle plate and the throat. Does it need this for the sake of getting air in there, or is it a sign of wear? 

 

The throttle arm also doesn't want to come all the way back to rest against the set screw on its own. 

 

 

 

 

 

[bacelaw]

31 minutes ago, SeasonedNewbie said:

I was back to rough running today and noticed again the carb was wet. I took it off the car and opened it up. The inside is pretty clean, there's a bit of sediment at the bottom of the float chamber. 

 

I'm not sure of the quality of this carb....

 

I think the float is wrong, it's above the top surface of the float chamber, and I suppose it wants 5/64" to be the gap there. I'm going to lower it. I have read that 1/8" suits the quality of modern fuel to what was used when the book was printed, any truth in that? 

 

Also, the idle jet orifice looks like it's off center with the threaded part. I tried to get a picture but it's doesn't show well the angle of the threads in relation to the hole inside. But it isn't straight through. The idle screw doesn't do much to actually adjust the idle. I can run it all the way down and the engine continues to run. 

 

And, there's a gap between the throttle plate and the throat. Does it need this for the sake of getting air in there, or is it a sign of wear? 

 

The throttle arm also doesn't want to come all the way back to rest against the set screw on its own. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is your idle rpm?  You should be able to idle her down to 600rpms or less no problem.  You may want to revisit vacuum leaks.  The idle screw should change rpms with very little movement of the screw- unless you have vacuum leaks at the carb throttle plate arm, at the base of the carb, and/or intake manifold.

 

 

[SeasonedNewbie]

When I have the timing light on it (the digital kind) it shows right at 700. I can then idle comfortably in gear which I think takes it down to just under 500. 

[SeasonedNewbie]

The carb cover was in no way flat, I'm working on smoothing it out right now. 

[Bingster]

After saying I would never rebuild a carb, I rebuilt one just like the one you have. And yes, there looks like a gas leak from the orange streaks.  I didn't put any sealant on the gaskets because they didn't recommend it if I had to get back in it for some reason.

 

Before I rebuilt it we did start it for a few seconds. I am hoping to get another chance when  the weather gets a tad warmer. The interior of the carb wasn't too bad, but some orifices were rather heavy with crap inside. Had to ream them out.  Its as clean as a whistle so I just hope I've adjusted everything correctly. Float, etc.

 

My car is a 47 DeSoto Custom and the body looks the same as yours with the exception of the grille. Would like to see more photos of the interior, etc.

[bacelaw]

If you cannot get the idle to adjust down lower than 700, you must have a vacuum leak or the throttle plate isn't closing (or both).  Most likely areas are intake manifold gasket, carb base, and the throttle arm inside the carb itself...

 

With no air leaks, she should idle way down under 600 without issue. 

[SeasonedNewbie]

The throttle plate definitely isn't sealing up. I was able to back off the throttle set screw and get it much closer but there's still a faint gap around it. As for the intake manifold, I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised. I will smooth the area where the carb bolts on before I reassemble it. 

[9 foot box]

   I’ve had the holes in the throttle body plugged with carbon before. I tried cleaning it and compressed air, but eventually hot water with a couple tablespoons of citric acid powder in an ultrasonic cleaner freed the blockage. You should have a base gasket like this so the base port gets vacuum from the manifold. You might have to lengthen the linkage that’s connected to the carburetor. Just a couple thoughts on why the idle jet doesn’t respond to adjustment. Rick D.

[greg g]

If the throttle doesn't close, the idle circuit isn't in the equation.  No amount of adjusting the idleair screw will have any effect.  The throttle doesn't  need to shut completely,  you are actually  supposed to use a thin drill bit as a gauge for the setting but unless the main linkage is closing and the float and needle and seat are working you are banging yer head against the wall.  Is the linkagefrom the gas pedal allowing full travel of the fiddly parts?

[FarmerJon]

14 hours ago, SeasonedNewbie said:

The throttle plate definitely isn't sealing up. I was able to back off the throttle set screw and get it much closer but there's still a faint gap around it. As for the intake manifold, I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised. I will smooth the area where the carb bolts on before I reassemble it. 

Not sure what make carb you have,  but all the ball&balls and the  Carter WA-1s I have rebuilt have a faint gap around the throttle plate. Even removing the plate and reseating it only gets them so good. I don't think it makes a difference for a single carb set up, I have no problem achieving a 475 rpm idle (manual transmission,  maybe you have a different spec)

With these old cars, chances are that it isnt just one thing wrong, it can be a little bit of everything.

You can check for intake leaks by spraying carb cleaner at the suspected leaks, and if Idle changes, it is leaking.

I would check for air leaks and rebuild the carburetor, then reassess. 

[Ivan_B]

On 12/16/2024 at 12:23 AM, Ivan_B said:

A bit of smoke\steam from the breather pipe and vented oil cap is ok, but I've never seen it literally blow like that.

Correction. I just looked under my own hood, after a cold start, and it was blowing smoke/steam as well... Starting the engine when warm, after some driving, produced no such effect. So this is either normal, or we've both got bad piston rings 😆

Edited Wednesday at 10:35 PM by Ivan_B

[SeasonedNewbie]

Alright, I've had some time to play around and I think there's a wobble in the distributor shaft. I removed it to reset points and then reinstalled, using a dwell meter to adjust points. That figure isn't constant, varying wildly from single digits well into the 40s. It's a digital multi function meter with the timing light. There is currently a 12 volt battery in there and I had it set to the proper number of cylinders, so I feel fairly confident in the accuracy of the meter. But perhaps there's some trick I don't know? 

 

I'm also wondering, it has a significant amount of advance as it's currently set. Is it theoretically possible to set the timing so far ahead that it actually throws off the firing order? I doubt that's the issue but I'm curious. I am going to go back to basics and reset everything one more time to make sure I didn't miss something. 

 

 

[Dave72dt]

Go all the way back and check point gap with a feeler gauge and check on each lobe of the cam.  Also give the shaft a push towards the points to see if the gap changes.  Expect some change since the shaft should be snug in the housing but not loose.

[SeasonedNewbie]

I took time to disassemble the distributor down to the weights and it was an interesting time had by all. I did note a tiny amount of side to side play in the shaft, as described, some change but it's snug, not loose. 

 

I discovered how bad the wires in there were so Ive ordered replacements for them. 

 

The springs under the breaker plate looked good and do bring the weights back to center. However everything was dirty and not moving freely. I cleaned it all up and got everything moving smoothly there. 

 

I'll update once everything is back together. I did get some pictures of the guts though. 

[SeasonedNewbie]

 

Edited 21 hours ago by SeasonedNewbie

[FarmerJon]

Whooo boy, that thing is crusty.

Does that advance plate move freely? An ultrasonic cleaner does great getting all the crust out of the ball bearing pivot.

 

Hopefully, fresh wire inside, with everything clean and lubed will fix the issues you are having. If not, at least you will know that the distributor is OK.

Manual calls for .008" max play. If you can feel much slop at all, it may be worth setting up an indicator on it to see if you are in spec.

[SeasonedNewbie]

Yeah, the plate and everything moves smoothly. The weights needed cleaned and lubed, which I did. The actual shaft in there really didn't seem to have any movement to it, it's more the cam assembly. But I agree, having decent parts inside will at least eliminate quite a few variables. I do think it was intermittently grounding against the case with those crappy wires. Not anymore! 

[Ivan_B]

This is probably the worst distributor I ever saw 😳 It must've been in some really humid environment. Do you also have the vacuum advance on that thing? If so, it is probably also shot. I am still in process of fixing my own 😅