1946 Chrysler Windsor running issues

[SeasonedNewbie]

I've been reading this forum pretty intently for a while now and I thought I would post here for some advice. I've posted about this car on the AACA forum but this one seems a bit more targeted. 

 

I got this car about 10 months ago and I've been working on it a bit at a time. It's now had brakes (which need a bit of adjustment right now) a rebuilt carb, it's now charging on its own and up til the last few days, running very nicely. 

 

After some really cold weather it's been running rough and that led me to the thermostat. It was missing. So I replaced that and it's now getting up to temperature but it's still running rough. I did notice the carb mounting nuts were loose and found a vacuum leak near the distributor. All of that corrected, there's still trouble. Hesitation on acceleration mostly. It's been running really great til the weather got cold. Here's a link to a drive where you can hear a bit of what it's doing:

 

 

Any ideas are always appreciated. I've been learning as much as I can and I've had pretty good luck studying and relying on that to solve the problem. There's also a level of thinking a rebuild is on the horizon but I don't have great options for places to work on that. 

[Dave72dt]

Ignition cutting out or maybe some water in the gas.  Point gap, points bouncing, condenser going bad.

[SeasonedNewbie]

That was all fairly recently replaced, new points, condenser. New coil. New plugs

[Dave72dt]

It won't hurt to recheck them and verify.  Did the points have the separate spring?  Sometimes it doesn't get installed correctly and the points will bounce.

 

I like the use of a timing light to check for ignition misfires.  Use it to check for steady flashing working along each plug wire.

Edited Sunday at 03:18 AM by Dave72dt

[SeasonedNewbie]

I will double check them. It did have the spring, and I did install it improperly the first time. It grounded and wouldn't run at all. 

 

I'll get out the light, too. 

 

I've had such odd luck with this car, each time a symptom leads me to a genuine issue, I fix it, and then it behaves like this!

[andyd]

Couple of things..........have you gone thru the carby at all?.....that would be my 1st thing to check, also have you checked the fuel tank for old gas, water sludge etc........I had a rare in Oz 1948 Chrysler Windsor 50 yrs ago.......apparently a dozen were imported for government use, I've attached the only pics I have of the car, it even had nice Highlander upholstery, every thing worked and I lost the garage I stored it in so had to sell it.................still miss it.......regards from Oztralia......Andy Douglas

[SeasonedNewbie]

Oh yeah, I sent the carb off to be rebuilt. Though I did read a thread here about the step up piston being sticky, it might be worth taking a peek. And the tank is an aftermarket thing, and I drive the car plenty enough that gas doesn't really sit. Water is always an option I suppose, maybe I can put an additive in to see if that helps. 

 

I had a 48 New Yorker Highlander, it was such a fine car but I wasn't equipped to deal with it and I had to sell it. I know how you feel, Andy! 

[bacelaw]

If she idles down at 600rpm smoothly, I think you can rule out any major vacuum leaks. So, it's got to be fuel delivery (fuel pump or carb) or ignition related.

 

I bet Keith would suggest testing fuel pump pressure.  If that checks out, and you said the carb is new, and the gas is fresh, it must be ignition related or timing. 

 

Does the vacuum advance and mechanical advance on the distributor function as they should?  It's possible you have a bad/new condenser out of the box.  

[Ivan_B]

Watched the video, a few comments:

1. your carb does not look rebuilt. It must be clean as new, there should be no leaks, no fuel stains on it, etc. I would recommend taking it off, and re-sealing all gaskets with some Permatex #2. If you have not already done so, check the float level and the operation of the accelerator pump too.

2. test the engine with a vacuum gauge

3. does your breather pipe smoke when the outside temp is warm as well? Does it start smoking right after a cold start? That could be a huge blow-by, which could also indicate why your oil pressure gets a bit low at times. My 201 shows a steady gauge regardless of the engine speed.

4. check dwell and ignition timing, also, it was already mentioned bout the points spring incorrectly installed...

5. please fix all your gauges

6. the radio would need new caps

7. nice houses in your area!

 

Later:

8. you need to troubleshoot that chirping noise, that is concerning. Take the plugs out, disconnect the coil, and spin the engine to check if it's there...

Edited Sunday at 02:40 PM by Ivan_B

[Sniper]

Cold weather related issues point me to one place to start

 

The choke.  Does it work and is it adjusted properly?

 

Next place I would look is the exhaust flapper, does it work properly?

[SeasonedNewbie]

The carb was clean when I installed it, though it dripped right away... I did tighten it and that stopped the dripping. That was months ago. 

 

I have put the vacuum gauge to it, it's between 17 and 18". I have done the tune up in order and I've adjusted the valves. They were wildly out of adjustment. 

 

I haven't noticed the breather pipe in warm weather. The vent tube will smoke a bit when it's warm in all weather after you shut it down. And a bit at idle. There's definitely blow by. 

 

I will look at the ignition once the rain stops. It was all correct when I put it together the second time. 

 

I will get there! That fuel gauge came up and went down twice and never came back. The temperature is the one I want working the most. 

 

Maybe when the dash comes out for rewiring, but that's a topic for another thread. 

 

Mine is the jewel with tools and old cars.... 

 

I don't like that sound either.... I didn't think to spin the motor that way, I will try that. Do I dare ask what might cause it...? I've heard that sound in at least one other clip of a flathead running. 

 

The choke is wide open when the knob is in, so I think it's right. The exhaust flapper does move and I can hear it flapper when it gets to temperature. I moved it around and it didn't change the way it ran

[bacelaw]

When you adjusted the valves, was the engine hot?  

 

 

[Ivan_B]

59 minutes ago, SeasonedNewbie said:

Do I dare ask what might cause it...?

No idea, sorry. I just hope that spinning the engine without running (and with no compression) might help you identify it better. Could be the generator or the water pump (hopefully). I would probably stop driving the car until this is resolved.

 

A bit of smoke\steam from the breather pipe and vented oil cap is ok, but I've never seen it literally blow like that. I first thought that you had an exhaust leak, until you've mentioned that it's the breather. 😮 I never ran the car in really cold weather, though, so maybe that is normal under the given ambient conditions. Let's wait for some of the northerners to chime in on that.

 

Sniper's point about the cold weather is correct. However, most of the cold-running issues are usually resolved as soon as the car warms-up, unless it is something really weird and not readily affected by the under the hood temperature 🤔

Edited Sunday at 09:28 PM by Ivan_B

[SeasonedNewbie]

The good news is it's absolutely the points. I'll pull the distributor out and see what their problem is. I pulled out the test light as mentioned and set it to dwell to see how that was. It wasn't right and I see there's something not right there. I went ahead and pulled the distributor. The spring has no spring left to it which screwed up the dwell which cooked the points. 

 

And, in fairness, there might be excessive fumes and such because it's not combusting properly. But that it's making it down into the crankcase in such volume. What's odd is that it really does run beautifully when it's right. It idles smooth... I have read they'll be in pretty rough shape before they just don't run. I'm going to fix the points first and see what we get. 

 

The noise is confounding. I remember seeing a Keith video where he found a chirping noise to be the water pump as I recall. It could stand to be greased, I did put oil in the oil cup on the generator, we'll see if it persists when it's going again. 

[SeasonedNewbie]

No, I didn't adjust valves hot but I added clearance to the figures to allow for it. I know that isn't the ideal way but I'm just not going to stick my hands in there with the enormous hot exhaust in my way. 

[Los_Control]

Real men use to lean over the fender and adjust them while the driver would keep a steady pace down the road.

[SeasonedNewbie]

That's why women consistently outlive us. 

[Ivan_B]

28 minutes ago, SeasonedNewbie said:

I remember seeing a Keith video where he found a chirping noise to be the water pump as I recall. It could stand to be greased,

If you have the zerk on the pump - yes, this is the regular maintenance item.

[Los_Control]

Several years ago I saw a cartoon of a driver in a vacant lot driving circles while the mechanic was bent over the fender adjusting the valves.

Thats what I think about with adjusting the valves hot .... I'm with you and will leave them a little loose when cold.

[Tom Skinner]

I am with Sniper, Choke if a Sisson needs adjustment. Dirty Needle and Seat? Idle Mixture Screw Tip Worn?

Hesitation upon acceleration - Dry Leather on the Accelerator Piston in the Carb? 

Winter Stroke Setting under the Piston? Dirty Passages at the Check Balls inside the Carb?

Dry Leather in the Dash Pot Piston?

 

Edited Sunday at 11:52 PM by Tom Skinner
Add a sentence at the end

[Tom Skinner]

I wouldn't pay someone to rebuild the carb. I would do it myself to be sure it is done properly.

There isn't enough parts to it to become confused, One last thing, No Air Cleaner? You are sure to suck in enough dirt to clog things up

Edited Sunday at 11:56 PM by Tom Skinner
respell

[Sniper]

Manual chokes depend on the driver to use them properly.  The last manual choke car I had, a 64 Chrysler 300, operated like this.  Pull the choke knob out about a half inch, drive till it starts to bog and hesitate then push it all the way in and it ran fine.

 

how long that took really depended on how cold it was.  In San Diego, where I drove it most, it was rarely needed.  When I went to radar school in Tennessee (winter there) it took a while to warm up enough to not needed.  Of course that car had no flapper.  But usually, by the time I got all the snow and ice off the windows it was most of the way there.

[Los_Control]

Seems every vehicle is different, depending on condition of engine & carburetor.

 

Back in the day when my flathead actually ran  🙄      It liked the choke to start it, once started it was a race to open it up before it choked itself out .... It did not need or like a choke to run and warm up.

 

Seems like a automatic choke or a scisson choke has a tough row to hoe.

[SeasonedNewbie]

I have never had good luck doing carbs. I know it's a useful skill but I haven't acquired it. And I've heard a lot of people not getting the parts they need with the kits. 

 

I had the air cleaner off while I was working under there. And it does need cleaned. 

 

I've used the choke a few different ways, and it seems to like to have it off in the first couple of minutes. I've done that, going til it seems to want less and it completely fouled the plugs. I've read to pull it out, stomp the gas, and hold that half way then crank. It always starts and then I push the choke back in til it smooths. Then it's the rest of the way in shortly after that. 

 

The sisson choke is there but the wire is frayed off. I havent run a new wire or tested the function of it. I can't decide if it's known to not work and that's why the PO ran the mechanical one or they were too lazy to figure it out. The last guy really did some dumb things. I do dumb things too but usually on my way to getting it right. 

[Sniper]

45 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Back in the day when my flathead actually ran  🙄      It liked the choke to start it, once started it was a race to open it up before it choked itself out .... It did not need or like a choke to run and warm up.

 

Yeah, my lawn mower is like that

 

38 minutes ago, SeasonedNewbie said:

I've used the choke a few different ways, and it seems to like to have it off in the first couple of minutes. I've done that, going til it seems to want less and it completely fouled the plugs. I've read to pull it out, stomp the gas, and hold that half way then crank. It always starts and then I push the choke back in til it smooths. Then it's the rest of the way in shortly after that. 

 

Sounds like you got it sorted.  Evey car likes what it likes.