Random talk about my engine, nothin special

[lostviking]

The engine in my 46 WD15 is a 230 from a 1958 W100 I believe, might be D100???

 

Anyway, I was going to swap it in one of several ideas, but I think I'm going to stick with it. It's been a pretty good running engine that fires on the first try, when it's been run in the last week or so. I've never "gone inside" to check it out, so today I did a compression check. Here's what I found.

 

1. All cylinders are 95-100 PSI. I didn't bring it fully up to temp. I didn't remove the air cleaner and open the throttle, so it might be slightly higher...I guess. Either way looks pretty good.

 

2. The plugs were NOT gapped correctly. Way bigger than .025, didn't even measure, just regapped as I put them back in. All look a bit lean actually, no deposits or other "bad things". Engine seems in very good condition. About 50 PSI oil pressure just off idle, 40 at idle and warm not hot.

 

Next up is to install the PCV conversion I got from Vintage Power Wagons oh so long ago. After that, I'm going to put some Reds headers on it and then rebuild those two Carter WA-1 carbs I bought for my Offy intake. I have the kits already, so it's just a bit of time.

 

That's all this thread is going to be. Me talking about things I see and things I'm planning to do. As always comments are welcome so long as I'm not expected to change course over a difference of opinion. Merry Christmas everyone! Happy New Year.

Edited December 24, 2023 by lostviking

[Matt Wilson]

Sounds like we'll have some good reading coming soon.  I already like it.

[Los_Control]

17 hours ago, lostviking said:

Anyway, I was going to swap it in one of several ideas, but I think I'm going to stick with it. It's been a pretty good running engine that fires on the first try, when it's been run in the last week or so. I've never "gone inside" to check it out, so today I did a compression check. Here's what I found.

 

I really like your game plan ..... I hope to keep to the same plan myself.

Basically fix what you have then run it .... then from your experience change what you feel is important.

 

I have a Rusty Hope disk brake kit I bought for a different project & never used .... Current project has good original drum brakes ... I'm keeping them for now.

Maybe in the future will change.

 

The original engine runs pretty good, transmission seems fine. I probably want to change the rear end .... lets keep it for now and drive it. Then make up my mind.

 

I recently picked up a 1970 318/3spd with supposedly 114K miles on it.  Would make a nice donor for my old truck ..... maybe in the future ... lets try original first.

 

Curious to see how the pvc conversion goes, something I have thought about myself.

 

 

[lostviking]

This is a military upgrade that moved into the civilian arena. Makes perfect sense to me. Why use a draft tube if you can have something that works better and doesn't allow road dirt to get sucked into the engine? It's like all the various changes Dodge made over the years. They didn't do it because it was different. They did it because it was an improvement over what they had. Self adjusting brakes, either disk or drum. Rear axles you don't have to use a puller to get the drum off. 12V electronics. It's all an upgrade. Sure, you can continue to use the original stuff, not saying that's wrong at all. It works. But, there might be something that works better and is easier to maintain. That's where I think I'm heading. I want to drive, and don't like the helicopter maintenance schedule. I love stock original builds. At least I love looking at them.

 

Probably going to buy the cast Stovebolt manifolds rather than Reds headers. He wants $445 plus shipping and that's $100 more. I doubt it's worth the extra, and I know his cost is MUCH less. I don't like profiteering.

[lostviking]

In case anyone else is interested, I just bought the Langdon manifolds from 12bolt.com, who sells for Langdon Stovebolt now. Just $340 plus $30 shipping...and uncle sam of course. Pretty darn good deal IMHO.

[lostviking]

Dec 16th, I've had it for some time now, but other things had to be fixed. Today I started to install the PCV upgrade I got from VPW. I know others have installed it, this is just my ramblings.

1) The port on my intake where the system should install is only 1/8NPT rather than the 1/4NPT needed. Tap on the way.

2) The tubing supplied had a 45deg bend that didn't bring the fittings next to the intake, so I added a second 45deg bend and it lines up fairly perfectly now.

 

Otherwise it seems to be everything to just pop it on. The PCV valve is fairly heavy duty looking, probably the military one, although I did try to read the fine print on it Pretty sure it is the only one I'll ever need.

 

[lostviking]

Funny. In order to drill a pilot hole to tap 1/4NPT, I would need to remove the inner fender. I know it's only 8 or 10 bolts, but this slight hold up gave me time to think about modifying the stock intake, when I'm going to be swapping in the dual carb intake. So I didn't. I am just going to pop a 1/4 to 1/8 reducer in there. I think it will still pull better than a draft tube, and it's temporary.

[lostviking]

Got er dun today. Some rebending and clocking of the fittings and the PCV system is installed. Even though my plugs all looked fairly lean when I did the compression test, I'm not hearing anything like a lean miss at idle or if I bring the engine speed up. I didn't take it for a drive yet, so that might change with a load. As usual the engine revs nicely and returns directly to idle without lagging to going under idle speed. Either would indicated the idle mixture was off. Seems spot on, both cold and after it warmed up. Yay.

I think I could do a much better job with the plumbing, but it will change with the dual carb intake anyway.

Had a wonderful surprise just before Christmas when I tried Tim Kingsbury's email address, and he responded. He was extremely nice to a complete stranger and we exchanged a few emails. Even offered to introduce me to George Ashe, his business partner at AoK Racing. It was too close to Christmas (Christmas eve), so I thanked him and just wished him Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. What a great Christmas present to me to get to talk with him at all. If he hasn't, I wish him and George would write some books to pass the knowledge on.

 

Talked about my Offy intake, which I knew wasn't optimal. George is about to turn 91 in Feb, but I guess he's still willing to make some parts. Tim said he might just convert my stock intake to duals and split my exhaust for me. I have the Langdon (Fenton copy) coming, which Tim says are good parts. As far as the intake, I'm thinking I might just try and clone/copy an AoK intake. I have access to the machine shop required and the TIG welding to make something up. I'm looking at a heavy wall aluminum tube for the transfer tube, mounting the carb flanges there. Have to keep the angles and such, which I can get from the Offy. As for the runners, I think some large radius 1.5" ID 6061 tubes cut properly and welded could get me pretty close the the unobtainable AoK intake for the 23 inch motors. Assuming I can pull something like that off, mainly via the skills of a friend and his machine shop, I'll post up some pictures and how done it in this thread.

 

Again, this isn't really a tech thread, just a scratch pad of thoughts and your feedback is welcome. Maybe Tim still drops in here and I can get him to comment. I won't bug him for that though.

Edited December 28, 2023 by lostviking

[lostviking]

So I saw this when I did the compression test, and didn't do anything. Now I am going to fix it, or try. If you need a good mechanic for your Dodge, please avoid the PO of my truck at all costs. He is the master to rigging things, without the master part.

 

The coil wire was just bunched up and shoved into the coil. He did put a boot on it, and it's been "working" so far.

 

Out of focus, but that's all it deserved anyway. I took a picture of the coil and saw there is threading in there. I checked it with a tap and it's 1/4-28. I used a bottoming tap to try and clean the threads a bit. Picture is from before.

 

 

 

Now I need to fab a terminal for the wire. I'm going to make a brass "bolt" with a hole on the end for the freshly stripped wire, and a set screw to clamp it. Just long enough to stick out a bit so I can grab it when needed.

 

Unless someone knows where I can get the original terminal? That would be the best, but I'm not buying a complete setup just to get that part. Not when I can make something.

Edited December 29, 2023 by lostviking
arranging pictures and text

[TodFitch]

8 minutes ago, lostviking said:

. . .

Now I need to fab a terminal for the wire. I'm going to make a brass "bolt" with a hole on the end for the freshly stripped wire, and a set screw to clamp it. Just long enough to stick out a bit so I can grab it when needed.

 

Unless someone knows where I can get the original terminal? That would be the best, but I'm not buying a complete setup just to get that part. Not when I can make something.

I don’t have an extra and my car came with Delco-Remy electrical rather than AutoLite so it might be different, but when I get home I can take a photo of the fitting on my car. Basically a hollow brass piece encased in Bakelite, threaded at the bottom. There is a bit at the tip that is tapered a bit. It should be possible to make a suitable replacement from a brass screw. If you wanted to get fancy you could probably make a mold and use epoxy to make it fancy and look more like an original. If I don’t post a photo by late next week please remind me.

[lostviking]

If you get the time please post a picture for anyone else needing to see it. Thank you.

[9 foot box]

   This is what my coil has. From my parts book there is a 676872 terminal and a 150834 nipple for the coil secondary wire. 

[lostviking]

There was a Delco part on ebay, so I bought one. It has the correct thread, so at the least I can salvage that and modify the rest. Once I have it I'll make a drawing and see about making more.

[9 foot box]

 

   I made a mistake on those part numbers,  those would be for the distributor cap. The part pictured is a 641252, Ignition coil high tension terminal screw. dpmotorparts  has 10 for $15 each.  Rick D.

[lostviking]

Got the Delco part today. It's in the truck. I just had to strip back the HV lead to expose the conductor more. I gave it enough to stick through and wrap a bit over the edge of the tip. I figure that's how it was done, as nothing clear about it in the manual I can see. It screws in perfect and holds the wire. I did leave the rubber boot on, although I don't think they originally did...

[lostviking]

Something I'll be adding to my truck, eventually, is the Fenton style cast dual manifolds I purchased. They are the Langdon parts, but sold via another site these days. Pretty nice looking parts, although I might just do a bit of cleanup in the exit hole. Unfortunately they do not sell a flange for the things, kind of strange but true. I found ones I like and they are .25 thick, which is a plus in my book.

https://www.wfoconcepts.com/i-30505198-2-tube-flange-2-bolt.html

 

I know there are a few members in the San Diego area. Does anyone know of a machine shop that knows flathead Dodges? I'd rather build my own motor than have someone else do it, but I need to find a machine shop to trust. Thanks.

Edited January 7 by lostviking

[Veemoney]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:02 PM, lostviking said:

linders are 95-100 PSI. I didn't bring it fully up to temp. I didn't remove the air cleaner and open the throttle, so it might be slightly higher...I guess. Either way looks pretty good.

 

2. The plugs were NOT gapped correctly. Way bigger than .025, didn't even measure, just regapped as I put them back in. All look a bit lean actually, no deposits or other "bad things". Engine seems in very good condition. About 50 PSI oil pressure just off idle, 40 at idle and warm not hot.

Your oil pressure and cylinder PSI check was decent and considering the throttle was not open as you said it is likely better. Are you thinking of rebuilding the motor or just milling the head? Just me thinking out loud. 

[lostviking]

Rebuild, but I need to save for that. It can be 130 for my year motor, so it's OK, but not great.

[lostviking]

When I stopped developing my AoK clone intake, it wasn't because I thought it was a bad idea. In fact I also stopped working on an adapter plate for the 833 transmission. I did that because I found out from Tim Kingsbury, that George Asche might have some plates still available. He did, so I bought one. He actually did a new run of them so I got one that was just finished. In talking with Robert, one of his sons, about the plate I tossed out a question I thought I knew the answer to...were there any AoK intakes still available? I was shocked when he told me they might have one I could buy. I sent them a check the very next day

 

In all it's glory, here is where I am with it.

 

 

 

I'm just getting started mocking up the linkage. George will do that for you, and it would most likely be better. I'm using my Carter WA-1's though and George prefers the B&B. Besides the fact that I like to do my own tinkering.

 

I drilled the tabs for the linkage rod a bit over and epoxied 5/16 oilite bronze bushing in place. I used the rod as a jig to get them in the right alignment, using my digital angle finder and some wire to pull the rods until is was as close to perfect as I can get it.

 

I still need to add a threaded hole to locate the bell crank, which I'll take off my stock manifold.

 

The right carb is just lightly bolted back together for the photo. I am taking it into work tomorrow to use one of our mills to drill for the custom bushings I'm making for the throttle shaft. The machine shop manager (We are an electronics company in simple terms) is helping me plan. I'm going to redo the bushings from some oilite bronze they have at .375 dia. I don't think the cast iron base has the wall thickness to go that far, so we will take a look and go with something that has more like a .020 wall thickness. We make cryogenic equipment (physics instruments) primarily, although I work on our SEM/AFM fusionscope project team. Anyway, I have liquid nitrogen I can use to freeze the bushings and after we heat the cast iron the plan is to have about a .0005 interference fit. Pretty tight sounding, but our guy's do tighter than that. I'll hone the bushings to size from my initial .3105 reamer. Should be fun.

 

You never find cool things, if you don't ask. I don't know if there are any more intakes available or not. The truth is, if you don't have to pay for anything but the raw materials (machine yourself, welding is free) you can do a pretty good job of imitation using the design I started. But it won't have George Asche Jr's name on it. Miles of smiles here.

Edited April 14 by lostviking

[lostviking]

I had a small delay after getting the tools I needed, I cut one of my finger tips. Mostly healed, and I just finished the only scary part of the throttle shaft work. I drilled the cast iron body with my 8.9mm drill. Now I have a size to shoot for, and I can finish the OD of my bushings. I'm shooting for .0005 inch interference fit. That means I'm going to heat the body and cool the bushings when I insert them. We have liquid nitrogen here, so both are easy to accomplish, but I'm just going to pop them in the freezer first and see. That might be enough.

Another thing I'll do, is a tool to use when I insert the bushings. Really just something to hold onto, but I can use it to set them flush with the OD of the body. I'll cut them so they won't be proud on the bore.

After that, I've got a .3105 reamer to use the get them very close, but that's about 1:1 with the shafts. I'll hone a couple thousands slip fit to account for the carb heating up and closing around the shaft. Fun times.

[lostviking]

Finished the bushings today, reamed with a .3105 reamer, and took them home. I froze them in the freezer, then taped them into place. I left a solid end on each bushing to give me a place to tap on, then I hack sawed the ends off and used a countersink tool to dress the ends. I expected them to close up a little, so I ran the reamer through again. It's still about a 1:1, so the shaft doesn't want to go in. I'll finish hone them using some 600 or finer sand paper and a split dowel to act as a tool. I want to shoot for about .002 clearance. IDK right now, I might just get a .3125 reamer and use it. That would give the same fit. Almost ready to finish the second carb. Then I can finish off the linkage and have it ready to install on my truck.

 

 

[lostviking]

Working on honing the bushings to allow the throttle rod to slide in. I can get it into either side, and I can get it to go all the way in, but no real clearance. I've been using a Delrrin rod with a slit on one end and strips of 600 grit paper, lubing with WD40. I decided to go ahead and purchase a small ball hone with a .27-.31 advertised range, but a working length long enough to go through both bushings at the same time. Funny about the advertised range, when it's also advertised as a 5/16 hone. We'll see when it gets here on Monday.

 

I also cleaned up the throttle rod by turning it using that same 600 grit and WD40. I'm not worried about it getting smaller in dia, since I'm fitting it and the bushings. More later. Enjoy the Memorial Day holiday, but please remember, it's for the those who gave it all in the service of their country.

[lostviking]

I have the bushings honed so that the shaft goes in and rotates. It might be slightly tight, but there is also a bit of a high spot. Depending on which way the shaft needs to rotate (I'm at work) it may not matter, but I think it indicates the shaft has a small bend in it. I'll decide what to do after I go home and see how the butterfly moves again. Can't remember right now. Close. Then it's finish the linkage time.

[lostviking]

Honed the bushings a couple more passes and everything felt great. Nice and smooth, and zero play that you can feel. I put a .311 gauge pin in there yesterday, and fined the honing with maybe 3 or 4 passes and a very slow drill today. I put the carb back together completely, feels good.

 

Mounted the two carbs on my intake with the base gaskets, but just finger tight on the flange nuts. I need to measure the point that the stock bell crank is located on my intake, and transfer that location to the AoK intake. Some planning and tinkering still to mate the truck linkage to the intake, but here it what it looked like today.

 

 

[lostviking]

I purchased the AoK adapter plate to mount a A833 overdrive at the same time as the intake. I just purchased a transmission off ebay from a wrecked truck (no trans damage) and also a shifter with all the linkages. I'll be pulling my 3spd and passing it on to someone. I will also switch the gears in my 8.25 rear end to 3.73 to take better advantage of the overdrive, and make 1 easier on the clutch. Not really having issues with the 3.55, but this makes sense.