Parking brake with T5 transmission conversion

[Sniper]

5 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

Have you heard of the hydraulic line lock he mentions? 

Yes and I do not know of any jurisdiction, in the US anyway, that allows them to be used as a parking brake.

 

My BMW uses an electric parking brake that applies and holds the caliper, no juice needed to hold.  That might be a solution, doesn't have to be in the back.

[Eneto-55]

10 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Yes and I do not know of any jurisdiction, in the US anyway, that allows them to be used as a parking brake.

 

My BMW uses an electric parking brake that applies and holds the caliper, no juice needed to hold.  That might be a solution, doesn't have to be in the back.

Our 2019 Honda has the electric parking brake as well, but the manual says not to use it in extreme weather - Use a wheel chock, they say!  (They say it can freeze up in the engaged position.)  That's nuts.  Why put stupid stuff like that on a vehicle?  It's not that hard to just press the emergency pedal down.  (I used a wheel chock with my first car, a 62 Chrysler, that had the internal drum parking brake on the transmission tail shaft as well, and the transmission on that car had no Park position.  The parking brake was worn out, so toward the end of its life I used a wheel chock.  But on a "new" car? That's crazy.)

Edited September 8, 2023 by Eneto-55

[Sniper]

Well there you go, lol.  Ever run over a wheel chock ?

[lostviking]

Line-lock is not a good solution, regardless of other issues, because it mean energizing a solenoid. It's for short duration use. IDK how far back it goes, but 1965 Dodge cars were still using the old axle style with the nut on the ends, but had integrated parking brakes. That shouldn't be much problem to put on the end of your existing read housing.

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, lostviking said:

That shouldn't be much problem to put on the end of your existing read housing.

 

Except those are the 8 3/4 axles and I am pretty sure the backing plates do not swap, easily.

[nonstop]

4 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Except those are the 8 3/4 axles and I am pretty sure the backing plates do not swap, easily.

I have done it for 2 axles.  I used 1965 Coronet rear brakes.  I had to drill 2 holes on each axle flange and a few other things.  I solved the seal problem by using 8 3/4 axle retainers.  I wrote up how I did it some years ago.

[Sniper]

9 hours ago, nonstop said:

I have done it for 2 axles.  I used 1965 Coronet rear brakes.  I had to drill 2 holes on each axle flange and a few other things.  I solved the seal problem by using 8 3/4 axle retainers.  I wrote up how I did it some years ago.

 

Interesting, because as I understand it, the pattern on those axles is the same as many later model ones.  I have an 11" drum setup from a Diplomat lying around, somewhere, lol.  I might offer them up and see.

 

This it

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/35125-tapered-axle-modification/https://p15-d24.com/topic/35125-tapered-axle-modification/

[Plymouthy Adams]

Sniper, I just did this last November and to put the Diplomat backing plates on you will have to do 5 mods for certain and likely another depending on the drum used.  1; split the hub and drum.   The bolt pattern is NOT the same and as nonstop said, the seal retainer will need be used from the old backers, this is a destruct non return to stock upgrade.  2; cut the seal retainer from the old backer trying to match the diameter of the donor backer here for fit,  this will be use to mark the new holes at the top of the donor backer...3; mark and drill donor backer to match the pattern.  4; you will need to trim the very top of the original axle flanges as they are quite tall and prevent the modern backer from sitting flush on the flange face.  (see location of cylinder in pictures)  5;  the hub will need the step for the original brake drum cut/removed to be flush to the diameter of the hub that is the centric locator for the wheel.  The possible other mod is the drum as it sits flush drum to hub.  The 74 drums I have here fit without dragging the backing plate if I recall but were damage beyond turning...the Diplomat(5th Ave) are made just a bit different with the larger cooling surface and I cut part of this bell so not to drag, .015 would have done the trick but wanted a better margin...you could shim the hub and drum but centric is you concern here and full seat is best, your call based on how yours may fit.  I would not say one and done for all examples.  Couple pics might help here...This was not at all an involved mod, just step by step process.  

 

 

NOTE:  Group loaded the pictures they are out of order but you can readily see each step however.  IF anyone wishes to save these pics I suggest do it now, my picture limit stays border line and unless my capacity is increased by GTK, I have to delete after a bit to maintain a buffer for posting pics.  

Subject vehicle shown is 47 P15 but these were done to be used on the 54.  

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[nonstop]

10 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Interesting, because as I understand it, the pattern on those axles is the same as many later model ones.  I have an 11" drum setup from a Diplomat lying around, somewhere, lol.  I might offer them up and see.

 

This it

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/35125-tapered-axle-modification/https://p15-d24.com/topic/35125-tapered-axle-modification/

 

That was it.  Plymouthy pretty much summed it up.  On my Royal, nothing needed machining.  On my truck, I needed to space the drum from the flange.  I never experimented with different drums, so something else might work…

 

I also used later axle retainers so I did not need to cut up the backing plates.  I am very happy with the brakes, and it will give the op a parking brake option.

[blucarsdn]

Scrolling through the many comments with solutions to the parking brake issue I did not note any comments about changing the rear end in the vehicle to one with internal parking brake.

Most people that I know are unaware of changing the rear axle when converting a vehicle to an OD trans..

Historically a vehicle that comes from the factory with an OD trans will have a gear ratio that is several ranges lower than the standard ratio. IE a 59 Ford F100 with have a standard ratio of 3.73, an OD trans will have 3.89.

I am going through a project to put a T-5 trans in my '38 Buick Special w/3spd and 4.40 gears. The T-5 will work well with 4.40, but it will work better with 4.10, therefore I have to change the rear end to a later model that can be re-geared to 4.10.

My brother made this mistake on his '54 Chevy that he put a 200R4 trans in with the stock 3.71 axle. The car would not run in OD in town, only D, on the highway he could run in OD if he kept the speed above 65/70.

The quick easy solution to the problem of no parking brake is to use a rear end with internal parking brake hooking up the new brake cables to the cars existing parking brake cable. Wm

[Sniper]

4 minutes ago, blucarsdn said:

My brother made this mistake on his '54 Chevy that he put a 200R4 trans in with the stock 3.71 axle. The car would not run in OD in town, only D, on the highway he could run in OD if he kept the speed above 65/70.

 

Most people looking to run an OD are looking for the highway aspect of it.  Now sure why you'd need to run around in OD in the city.

 

4 minutes ago, blucarsdn said:

The quick easy solution to the problem of no parking brake is to use a rear end with internal parking brake

 

Not really quick or easy, not to mention you now also need a new driveshaft, assuming you are using the original MoPar OD and not something like a T5.  Then you need to fab up some sort of actuating system to now use those parking brakes.  Don't forget to set the pinion angle and address the fact that the early MoPar leaf springs are narrower than later springs and you may need to cut off the donor's perches and put on new ones.  I will admit that when I swapped in a 9 1/4 into my 38 Plymouth the perches were not an issue.  Since I was also swapping in a 360 and automatic the driveshaft was going to get redone anyway.

 

All of it is doable, but if adding later drum setup is a simple matter of some easy machining I'd look there unless I needed a stronger rear axle.

 

[blucarsdn]

I might have used the wrong term when I said " Quick easy solution", it is very apparent that the person that did the T-5 conversion did not really think the whole process out, he had to use a new/altered drive line, and most likely never gave the rear end ratio a thought.

When I was in the process of building my '39 Plym conv I knew I was going to use a V8 engine, auto trans, disk brakes, therefore I changed the front suspension to a unit that was built for that purpose. I changed the rear end to a later model that had larger brakes, internal parking brakes and modern rear springs/shackles to eliminate axle wrap.

I'm using the same thinking for my '38 Buick with the T-5 conversion.

I try to live by one of the basic rules my father taught me.. "Don't let the directions on the can out smart you, and if you can't find time to do the job right, when are you going to find time to re do it". Wm

[Young Ed]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:25 AM, Sniper said:

 

Most people looking to run an OD are looking for the highway aspect of it.  Now sure why you'd need to run around in OD in the city.

 

You don't but typically the idea is to put it in OD and let the automatic be automatic. 

[Sniper]

31 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

You don't but typically the idea is to put it in OD and let the automatic be automatic. 

 

Well, being that we were talking about a T5 I was think manual, not automajic.  lol  I do not like automatics.