No starter engagement / troubleshooting

[PareosWC]

Dodge 230 6v flathead idled on its own back in 2015, temporary starter circuit remained intact until now. Fast-forward to today, placed a fresh 6v battery in the truck, and when I engage the foot starter, I get nothing- no clicks, whirrs, smoke, etc... Truck and motor moves freely in neutral, key switch is bypassed.

 

The components in 2015 were new- 6v coil, 6v battery, rotor, cap, cables, etc., so my troubleshooting may focus on the coil and starter? Before I pull the starter and bench test, is there something I'm forgetting? If the truck moves easily in neutral, that should mean that the clutch is not stuck, correct?

 

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showfull.php?photo=294038

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by PareosWC

[Los_Control]

Curious about the cables. .... 6 volt positive ground requires heavy cables to carry the amps. I have .02 sized cables which is on the small size but they work. 00 or 01 would be ideal.

The red cable looks small, but photos can be deceiving. .... The black cable looks way too small, judging from where it sits next to the red one.

Seems like you would still get a click or something, even if it would not turn the engine over fast enough to start. .... Something else is going on.

 

Grounds are extremely important on a 6 volt system .... looks like yours is connected to the head? Seems like it would be ok.

Mine goes to the transmission cover on top. The starter & trans are both bolted to the bell housing ... Your ground may be more effective ... May not matter.

I think it would look a lot cleaner if you ran the wire from the battery down low .... maybe to a bell housing bolt?

 

Looks like you have a stomp starter, iirc there is a copper washer under the cover of the solenoid. This can get corroded ... this would prevent the starter from working.

I think you can remove the solenoid cover with the starter installed and clean/inspect it. <---- Would be the first thing I would check.

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Los_Control

[Merle Coggins]

My thoughts are similar to what Los_Control said. I suspect it’s a connection issue, most likely the contacts inside the starter switch that is operated with your foot lever. I also agree with his observation about the battery cables. They look like ‘off the shelf’ cables from the local auto parts store. They are fine for modern 12v vehicles but quite small for a 6 volt vehicle. I also notice that you have an 8 volt battery installed. Once you get it running you’ll need to readjust your voltage regulator to ensure it charges properly.  

[desoto1939]

Also noticed there are no wires connected to anything from the generator. Alsowhat is the yellow wire wire running to the coil and then into the battery post.  ALso are you running an 8 volt battery? i see four aps and that would only be 3 if a 6 volt battery  Are the battery cable tight on each post.  Yes you can take off the starter switch that is on top of the starter motor when you un screw the selinoid take off the battery cable and rap it in a cloth so not to complete an electrical circuit.

 

Also under the selinoid there should be a bakelite red gasket. Are you able to push the starter pedal down to make a complete contact with the switch and copper end within the switch.

 

rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

 

 

[Sniper]

4 hours ago, PareosWC said:

so my troubleshooting may focus on the coil and starter?

 

Not sure why you are thinking about the coil, if the starter isn't spinning the coil can't do anything.

 

4 hours ago, PareosWC said:

If the truck moves easily in neutral, that should mean that the clutch is not stuck, correct?

 

In neutral, the clutch is no longer connected to the rear wheels.  So it proves nothing there.  Now if you had it in gear AND the clutch pedal depressed and it moved freely, then yes the clutch is not stuck.

 

Do a voltage drop test on your setup, you will need a second person to push the starter pedal though.  Make sure it is in neutral AND the wheels are chocked, you don't want to run yourself over.

 

My voltage drop test method in the video below.  Anytime I used the starter solenoid in that video you will need to have someone push the starter pedal instead.

 

https://youtu.be/cRz1IqJLXqU

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, desoto1939 said:

Alsowhat is the yellow wire wire running to the coil and then into the battery post.

Good catch, that really looks suspect.

If it is what I think it is, it looks hard wired. That needs to be able to disconnect quickly if needed. .... Left as is it could simply weld the points together making the engine non operable.

 

The power to the coil is not needed to get the foot starter to turn the engine over. Is only needed to start the engine while it is turning over.

You need a quick way to disconnect it in a emergency like a stuck throttle & racing engine.

[PareosWC]

As a precursor, this is a 6v POS ground set up. The yellow wire is a jumper from the coil POS to BATT. Regardless, I pulled the starter and bench tested it along with/without the solenoid.

 

With 6v applied with solenoid attached, I receive zero output from the bendix- whether I engage the starter lever or not

 

However, with the solenoid removed, and a jumper cable attached directly to the starter nut, the bendix spins intermittently. Out of 10 attempts to place the ground against the cast nose cone, the bendix would rotate 30% of the time. All internals are extremely sticky and gummed up.

 

 

[desoto1939]

sounds as if the starter might need to be rebuilt and also chekck for any shorts in the armature I would also clean up the selinoid and clean up the tarnished areas. 

 

The positive terminal onthe coil should hook to the breaker plate because you are positive ground. The negative contact should be coming from the ignition swithch.

 

Look at the yellow wire again.

 

Rich Hartung

[SteveR]

I had a problem with my 37 Push starter. I had 2 problems:

1) The switch on top of the starter (your photo) had worn areas so I applied solder to those areas to build them up.

2) My starter quit completely. I took apart the starter and found the 4 brushes worn out and actually twisted. The commutator was scored and black. I replaced the brushes and turned the Commutator on my lathe, reassembled it, and have had no problems since.

[PareosWC]

Thanks, gents! I will look at it in more detail today.