Having some trouble with the plumbing on the oil filter on 48 DeSoto

[MarcDeSoto]

The Parts book shows two different oil filters on the 48.  One is the throw away filter with the oil supply entering from the top.  The other is the one I have with the oil entering from the side.  The book doesn't show where the lines go on the filter with the screw cap on top?

[White Spyder]

Marc,

 

maybe these will help

 

 

[White Spyder]

Second photo

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by White Spyder

[Marcel Backs]

outlet is the bottom line connection (goes to return oil gallery)- inlet (pressure side) connects to the side of the filter and taps into the same oil gallery as the oil pressure gauge either by a separate fitting or a T. Hope this helps M

[MarcDeSoto]

Thanks guys, I think I got it.  What car is that White?  My filter doesn't look like that.  

[Marcel Backs]

original color for mine is beige base and red top/ filter with replaceable element

[White Spyder]

9 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Thanks guys, I think I got it.  What car is that White?  My filter doesn't look like that.  

48 Chrysler Windsor with the 251. 

[MarcDeSoto]

The Chryslers have the Full Flow filter.  My DeSoto has the little partial flow thing above.  I bought two 3/16 8" lines at NAPa and I think I've got the hang of it now.  

[White Spyder]

I did a thread about this when I had to change a Welch plug. Be aware that the inlet and outlet need a copper cup crush washer to seal. Tighten up snug then run. If it leaks tighten a bit more then repeat u til the connection has no leaks. Do not over tighten, it will ruin the washers. 

[MarcDeSoto]

Ok, thanks.  Didn't know about the copper cup crush washers.  Now I have new problem.  The brass nut that comes out of the engine where the oil filter drains back into the sump is stripped.  I tried to unscrew it from the block, but the side caved in.  It won't unscrew.  So I guess I need to remove the starter to gain access.  problem again.  I can't remove the starter without removing the clutch linkage.  We tried to gain access by removing the engine strut, but it didn't help much.  Is there a way to remove the lower bolt on the starter without removing all of the clutch linkage?  Thanks.  

[MarcDeSoto]

We removed the starter without having to remove the clutch linkage by removing the bell housing support.  But I have another problem.  I'm using new 3/16 brake line to make new lines for the oil filter.  Problem:  My brass nuts are 28 tip and the brake line is 24 tip!  I think they still make the brass nuts, but do they make them in 28 thread?  and do they make 3/16 line with 28 tpi on the nuts?  If they don't, I'm going to have to try the used parts market.

[9 foot box]

   You must not have inverted flare fittings. 1/8” pipe fitting is 27 tpi. I’d bet a 1/8” pipe plug would thread into your fitting. You should not have to change fittings on the lines to fix your problem, if the correct brass elbows/fittings are inverted flare. 

[MarcDeSoto]

I messed up the threads when I tried to screw in modern brake line which is 24 thread.  I tried to unscrew the 45 deg. fitting that screws into the engine block and destroyed it.  Maybe th 1/8" pipe thread would work if it's 28 threads per inch.  Now where am I going to get some 3/16 brake line with 28 thread nuts?  

[White Spyder]

11 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

We removed the starter without having to remove the clutch linkage by removing the bell housing support.  But I have another problem.  I'm using new 3/16 brake line to make new lines for the oil filter.  Problem:  My brass nuts are 28 tip and the brake line is 24 tip!  I think they still make the brass nuts, but do they make them in 28 thread?  and do they make 3/16 line with 28 tpi on the nuts?  If they don't, I'm going to have to try the used parts market.

I feel your pain on the starter removal. I was not sure about removal of the bell housing support. I custom made two tools to help me get a bit mor clearance without having to mess with the brake and clutch linkage. A shallow socket and a thin shouldered open end wrench. Patients was the word of the day to get small turns on the 5/8 bolt. 
 

when you removed the support did you support the transmission or bell housing?

[MarcDeSoto]

No I didn't.  My problem now is not how to remove the starter.  Done that.  Now who sells the right kind of brass fasteners and brake line with 28 threads?  Nobody I think is the answer.  

[MarcDeSoto]

Now I'm really confused.  I looked at the Part book and it says the brass nuts are 24 thread.  But when I check it with my thread gauge, the best fit is 27 gauge!  Maybe I'm doing it wrong or measuring it wrong.  

[Sniper]

Typos are not uncommon.  Take it with you to the hardware store and see what fits.

[MarcDeSoto]

Just found out something.  The brass elbows that screw into the block are 27 threads on the block side and 24 thread on the tube side.m  Found this out using my tap and die kit thread measuring gauge.  Makes sense since 27 thread is a common pipe thread!  Now things are beginning to make sense and the good thing is my new 8" 3/16 brake lines will work.  

[Sam Buchanan]

On 4/25/2022 at 3:17 PM, MarcDeSoto said:

The Parts book shows two different oil filters on the 48.  One is the throw away filter with the oil supply entering from the top.  The other is the one I have with the oil entering from the side.  The book doesn't show where the lines go on the filter with the screw cap on top?

 

Ok, I'm gonna wade into this and hopefully won't make it worse.

 

Marc, you are not using the correct terminology to describe your situation and that is making it hard for some of us to follow.

 

29 minutes ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Just found out something.  The brass elbows that screw into the block are 27 threads on the block side and 24 thread on the tube side.m  Found this out using my tap and die kit thread measuring gauge.  Makes sense since 27 thread is a common pipe thread!  Now things are beginning to make sense and the good thing is my new 8" 3/16 brake lines will work.  

 

Ok....while I was typing my response you replied and cleared up some of the muddiness.

 

Yes, the brass elbows you are wanting (they are not 'nuts', they are fittings) have a male NPT thread and a female thread that accepts the brake lines and mate the reverse flare on the lines to the corresponding inverse flare in the elbow. The NPT thread is tapered and depends on torque to seal the fitting tightly but the threads on the brake lines do not seal the union. The seal occurs when the fitting forces the two flares together tightly.

 

Now that you have some basic semantics squared away this should be easier for you to source the fittings you need. When you purchase brake lines and fittings make sure you don't get the ones with metric threads!

 

Now........I'm gonna really wade into it. Often the questions that are raised while piddlin' with our projects can be answered by just taking a seat in the Thinking Chair (every shop needs a Thinking Chair), removing the blinders so we aren't crippled by tunnel vision, and thinking the whole thing through for a while. This can be much more productive....and satisfying.....than reflexively heading for the keyboard...... ?

 

Thinking Chair implemented while trying to figure out how to mount a fuel tank in a Fokker DVII biplane:

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[MarcDeSoto]

Thanks.  Fittings is right.  Just got back from O'Reilly's and when I gave the clerk the right information, they had the fittings I needed.  They had the straight fitting that goes into the bottom of the oil filter housing and the elbow that goes into the block to drain the filter.  The only part they didn't have was the fitting with the 45 deg. elbow, but I think I can use my original fitting for that.  Gook luck on your WWI fighter plane.  I have a WWI Edison Army Navy phonograph that saw front line action in 1917-18.  It has the Field Hospital number stamped on the sides and the records have the captain's name and the FH number scratched into the dead wax on the records.  It was used to entertain wounded troops in south eastern France about a mile from the German border.  

[Sam Buchanan]

11 minutes ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Thanks.  Fittings is right.  Just got back from O'Reilly's and when I gave the clerk the right information, they had the fittings I needed.  They had the straight fitting that goes into the bottom of the oil filter housing and the elbow that goes into the block to drain the filter.  The only part they didn't have was the fitting with the 45 deg. elbow, but I think I can use my original fitting for that.  Gook luck on your WWI fighter plane.  I have a WWI Edison Army Navy phonograph that saw front line action in 1917-18.  It has the Field Hospital number stamped on the sides and the records have the captain's name and the FH number scratched into the dead wax on the records.  It was used to entertain wounded troops in south eastern France about a mile from the German border.  

Excellent, looks like you have this whipped! ?

 

The photo is several years old, I flew the D7 for six years and it is now at home in Oklahoma. Those WWI pilots were a special breed.... 

[MarcDeSoto]

Yes, and didn't live long.  And I don't think they included Errol Flynn and David Niven!  I got the oil filter installed today.  I'm glad I put this thread on here as I don't think many here know much about the oil filter mounting details.  No one corrected me when I said the threads were 28 tpi and no one knew about the 27 threads for the block side of the fittings.  

[Sam Buchanan]

I think some of us know the threads in the engine block are 1/8" NPT and the other side is whatever is on US brake lines.....I was in the process of writing that when your reply interrupted me.....glad you got it worked out.....the saga continues.... ?

Edited April 30, 2022 by Sam Buchanan