brakes ... Brakes !!!

[Solga]

Hello everyone ! 

For those that have not seen my intro thread, yesterday I brought home my '46 WC.  It's the first chance I have had to REALLY look things over and figure out what all I am going to do with this truck.

Anyway, we got it started and the truck runs great.  I can tell that I am going to have to drain the gas, and put some fresh 87 octane in with some sta-bil or marvel mystery oil. That's another subject for another time tho.  

After the truck was running, and I got the trailer lined up, I jumped in the WC to pull it on up.  Well, I got about half way up the ramps and stalled it out so the truck started rolling backwards.  No big deal, BUT, when I pushed down on the brake pedal, it went straight to the floor !! Thankful the E-brake works pretty good.  

 

I have decided that I am going to completely redo the brakes, from front to back. This way there is no question as to what may fail next, or when. I am not sure when anything was worked on, or replaced last, let alone know who did it.  I do know that my dad said he only drove this truck a few different times in the time he owned it, and he never changed anything, or had to work on it.  After looking the truck over, (and with the exception of the wiring) I do not want to change anything, that I can not put back to how it was when I bought it.  

Please keep in mind, that even though I know the search function exists, (and I have used it) some of the information seems to be dated and even some of the companies used to buy parts are no longer in business.

Now, on to my questions.  

I am going to do a front disc brake conversion. I have done some preliminary searching and reading, and have found 3 different disc brake conversion kits.  Scarebird, Rusty Hope and the one from DMC.

Are there any major differences in these 3 kits ? 

Are there any serious modifications that have to be performed for any of them ?

Is there anything that makes one kit stand out from the others ? Although I don't have to have the best of everything out there, I don't mind paying for a more complete kit. 

 

I do want to put a dual reservoir MC on while I am changing things over. Are there any I should keep an eye out for, or any certain model recommended, or to avoid ?  Although I can follow almost any directions, and can weld almost anything, my skills lack in the custom fabbing department, so I would prefer to have something bolt in.

I will also be changing out the rear wheel cylinders.  (Pretty sure my back driver's side one has given up) Are there any specific ones I should look for, or avoid at all costs ? I really do not want to rebuild the ones in there now, if I can avoid it. 

Any other comments, suggestions or recommendations in dealing with the brakes will be greatly appreciated ! 

 

Thank you, to everyone who takes the time to read and respond ! 

 

Adam

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Adam welcome to the group.

As far as brakes go I can tell you what has worked well for me. Rustyhope for the front and 02 Grand Cherokee rear axle on the rear. Got a more usable ratio along with 12" discs. I used a matching Grand Cherokee M/C and a Wilwood proportioning valve. 7 years and more than 30,000 miles with zero maintenance or adjustments. Has made driving a 70 year old truck in relatively heavy SoCal traffic a piece of cake. Easily the best money I spent when building my truck.

Jeff

[Solga]

Thank you for that information !  Do you have a build thread, or anything where you documented the swap ?  Also, did you do the disc brake conversion yourself ? 

 

Adam

[Jeff Balazs]

No I did not do a specific build thread. Some of it would be here in various old threads. I did do the work myself. Because the different truck models use different size wheels and components it isn't likely that you will find all the answers in one source. Got to do some digging. But I can assure you when it comes to specifics this is the best place to get or find your answers.

I went the route I did because I knew I was going to use this truck as a daily driver. And I was being very realistic about the drivers and driving conditions I would be facing. I also wanted a braking system that did not require special tools or frequent maintenance. I think it really depends on how you intend to use your truck and where you are using it as to how far you should take this. Certainly the original type brakes can be made to work just fine for a lot of situations. Or perhaps just go with a front disc kit and a dual chamber M/C. Rear discs are very nice but I could have gotten by without them if I I wasn't able to get them as part of the rear axle swap.

You will need to be careful as you wade into this. There will be some fit up issues and you need to be very certain about thing like final wheel selection. You will need to make an adapter bracket for the M/C and may need to make some simple mods to the pedal linkage. Much of this will be specific to your truck model and wheels. My best advice is take your time, do your research and think it all out carefully. It is totally worth the effort in the end.

 

Hth, Jeff

[Solga]

Thank you for the reply !  

At this time, I am probably just going to go with the disc brakes on the front, and drums in the rear.  I will be looking into the dual chamber master cylinder as well.  Winter time is coming quickly, so that will give me plenty of opportunities to get the brakes lined out before spring driving hits ?

Adam

[lostviking]

There are plenty of build threads with pictures. You can do a search and find ones that are probably better done than mine, but I just did the Scarebird install on the front, copied another members Toyota dual circuit master install and swapped the rear end for a Jeep one. I have modern brakes all around (as soon as the wife lets me finish plumbing the brakes and bleeding them), and I have a 3.55 rear end ratio so I won't be topping out at 40MPH.

 

Look around the site. There are people who have used other parts and had great success. I used the Scarebird because it does not require any modifications to the stock parts. I could return to stock at any time, but why? Just giving myself all the options I guess.

[Solga]

I have been doing some looking around and searching on here, but my search "lingo" could still use some improvement.  Seems as if every time I try to search something, I can find a thousand responses for everything for 2 ton trucks to every car that dodge has, but very few that are specific to my WC.  Add in to the fact that I am new enough to these Dodge vehicles that I have absolutely no clue of what information will interchange or be applicable to my truck.  I fully admit that I have a lot to learn still.

For example, this may be common knowledge to most of you, but I literally just figured out that there are leaf springs and a solid axel on the FRONT of my truck .... Leaf springs ! I didn't even know that was a thing. I knew of the solid axle "gasser" type look on cars, but had no idea about these trucks. 

Anyway, now that I have shown my ignorance, I guess I will just have to do some more searching, and ask if the info interchanges.  

 

Viking, I appreciate the info, and I will definitely look into the Toyota MC ! Originally, I am not at all a purist type of car owner, but it's hard for me to want to change much on a vehicle that has made it 75 years, and in the amazing condition that it is in ! I will post more pictures as I get them resized. 

I am really leaning toward the scarebird conversion, but I am still curious as to what is the difference between the scarebird and the DMC kit to substantiate such a price difference.  

 

 

Adam

[lostviking]

I don't know anything about the DMC kit. The other one that many people have use is the Rusty Hopes kit. I didn't just because it required machine work to the spindle, thereby it was no longer backward compatible. I may never, or probably will never, go back, but why not be able to?

 

Here is my scarebird conversion thread: 

 

 

Here is the dual circuit master cylinder thread I found and used : 

 

[ggdad1951]

13 hours ago, Solga said:

I have been doing some looking around and searching on here, but my search "lingo" could still use some improvement.  Seems as if every time I try to search something, I can find a thousand responses for everything for 2 ton trucks to every car that dodge has, but very few that are specific to my WC.  Add in to the fact that I am new enough to these Dodge vehicles that I have absolutely no clue of what information will interchange or be applicable to my truck.  I fully admit that I have a lot to learn still.

For example, this may be common knowledge to most of you, but I literally just figured out that there are leaf springs and a solid axel on the FRONT of my truck .... Leaf springs ! I didn't even know that was a thing. I knew of the solid axle "gasser" type look on cars, but had no idea about these trucks. 

Anyway, now that I have shown my ignorance, I guess I will just have to do some more searching, and ask if the info interchanges.  

 

Viking, I appreciate the info, and I will definitely look into the Toyota MC ! Originally, I am not at all a purist type of car owner, but it's hard for me to want to change much on a vehicle that has made it 75 years, and in the amazing condition that it is in ! I will post more pictures as I get them resized. 

I am really leaning toward the scarebird conversion, but I am still curious as to what is the difference between the scarebird and the DMC kit to substantiate such a price difference.  

 

 

Adam

 

we have a sticky up top to maybe help you navigate "search" a bit better.

 

 

[Solga]

Viking, as always, you are a tremendous help ! I really do appreciate the time and effort you take to reply ! And the information is spot on ad well ! Hopefully as I get more knowledgeable about my truck, I will be able to help others (new or old) like you have done. 

 

Ggdad, thank you so much for that link.  I do think that there are a few differences in what is in that search box, and what I see.

I will say that 99% of the time I am looking through these forums on my phone, and not a PC though, so that may be the difference.

For example, I have went to the main page, and all of the sub forums to try to search, but not on any of them do I get an option to search "this forum".  All of the search choices are the same, regardless of the forum I am in, and the only options I am given is a content search tab (which only lists member search); content type; find result in; find results that contain; date created; and last updated.  None of the previous listed search categories have "this forum" in the list under them.

Also, I thought that maybe since I don't have the search option for "this forum" that it would just automatically do it.  So even if I am in the truck sub forum, and I do a search for "tail lights" it still brings up threads from the car forum, eBay craigslist forum, off topic, announcements & feedback, etc. 

 

Adam

 

[Dave72dt]

When you first hit the search feature you should get a drop down menu, choose your search area, then type in your search topic, then enter.  With that method I just tried your taillights and got only truck forum results.

[Solga]

Dave, thank you for taking the time to try and help resolve my searching issues. I really do appreciate it. 

 Maybe it is something with my phone then, because what you are describing does not happen with my screen.

I have attached some screenshots from my phone.

The first screen is what it looks like on my phone, when just getting on to the flathead truck sub forum.  When I click on the magnifying glass icon for searching, (*note* I do not get an actual search bar where I can type something in.) the second screenshot is what I get.  The 3rd screenshot is what it looks like when I scroll down just a bit.  I can provide more screenshots if needed, but from the sounds of it, it may just be something in the settings of my phone. 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by Solga
Spacing

[Dave72dt]

Someone who searches from a mobile communication device may have to help then.  Since I don't have one of those, I do mine from a PC.  still something to be said for the big screen.

[Solga]

Dave, while talking with you, I got to thinking, and I may have figured it out. 

While looking through different things on my phone, I looked in the pull down menu with the 3 dots stacked vertically.  In that menu there was an option for "desktop site"

When I clicked on that, the actual search bar appeared and I had the option to choose "this forum".  I haven't used it yet, because it makes the print so small, so I will probably just wait til I get home to my laptop to do searching.  

You are definitely correct on the big screen part. Especially for the visually challenged, or aging eyes ! 

 

Adam

[JBNeal]

there should be an option for desktop site in the phone browser menu...the desktop site will load a little slower on a phone but there are more site options available, such as seeing more options in the search function, seeing profile signatures, etc

[Solga]

That is good to know, JBNeal !  I have often wondered why there weren't any signatures on this site, like I see on many others.  

 

 

[Solga]

Just a quick update. 

Without any input about new wheel cylinders, I went ahead and ordered the Centric wheel cylinders off of my prime based account.  They were the same ones listed on several other websites as being correct for this truck, and with free shipping, I got them on the way. 

Centric part # for the Left is 13467022

Centric part # for the Right is 13467021

I will post back on here, how everything turns out with them. If for no other reason than to have a future reference.  

 

I figured at less than $35, even if I decide to upgrade the rear end later, this $ won't feel wasted. 

 

Adam

Edited November 14, 2021 by Solga
Options

[1949 Wraith]

17 hours ago, Solga said:

Just a quick update. 

Without any input about new wheel cylinders, I went ahead and ordered the Centric wheel cylinders off of my prime based account.  They were the same ones listed on several other websites as being correct for this truck, and with free shipping, I got them on the way. 

Centric part # for the Left is 13467022

Centric part # for the Right is 13467021

I will post back on here, how everything turns out with them. If for no other reason than to have a future reference.  

 

I figured at less than $35, even if I decide to upgrade the rear end later, this $ won't feel wasted. 

 

Adam

Those are the parts I got for my '42 last year from Rock Auto. Front and back, fit and work fine

[Solga]

Good to know ... Thank you sir ! 

 

Adam

[1949 Wraith]

If you are keeping your truck fairly original and only cruising at 50, the original brakes work pretty good.

[Solga]

Wraith, I am actually considering just leaving everything pretty much, the way it is, because the more I mess with it, the more I will want to change.  I will be fixing the wiring mess, and may upgrade the MC to a dual design, just for the sake of safety though.  

I will say though, the only thing that really concerns me with the original drum brakes, has more to do with my lack of knowledge about them.  I have changed plenty of drum brakes in my day, but none this old and that required specialty tools (if they make them anymore) in order to set the shoe mounting and adjustments correctly. 

 

Just a quick rambling.... and in NO way directed towards you, or anyone for that matter.

My thing is, I am the type of person that if I change this "x", then what will hurt in changing that "y", and once those are changed out, to change out "z" isn't gonna hurt anything.  Next thing you know, half the truck has been replaced and then you end up with a Theseus paradox, and not really being able to call it original any more. 

 

I mean, if we REALLY look at our vehicles, how many can say theirs is 100% original ? Probably not very many. For example, my wheel cylinders .... Sure they are manufactured for my dodge truck ... But in who knows what country, and by a company that distributes parts for every American vehicle from 1940+

Another example, if my rear axle and housing blows apart, and I replace it with a custom built Moser Engineering rear axle housing (very hard to locate NOS) that is made to fit my truck in the stock location, (kinda like the wheel cylinders) is it a Moser rear end, or is it a Dodge rear end ? And if that is a Dodge rear axle housing, what if it was made to fit with a F*rd 9" differentail but uses the (common for F*rd AND Dodge) 5x4.5 bolt pattern, what is it called then ? Surely not original ... But then again, Centric brake cylinders aren't either, and neither is my Delco alternator, GM 12v coil, and AutoZone wiring, off brand aftermarket brake lights and brackets made by God only knows who, front turn signals that looks like they came from a Rural King trailer wiring kit, and power wiper motors.  And those are just the things I have noticed since I have had the truck home. Lol

 

Ok, I am off my soap box now ?

Edited November 15, 2021 by Solga

[Veemoney]

 

1 hour ago, Solga said:

I am actually considering just leaving everything pretty much, the way it is, because the more I mess with it, the more I will want to change.  I will be fixing the wiring mess, and may upgrade the MC to a dual design, just for the sake of safety though

I had the same thinking when I purchased my 47 WC, change a lot of things. I started fixing the non-functioning brakes and a few other items.  It came with an extra MC that I rebuilt along with the existing wheel cylinders. Once I had the brakes done and started driving it my plan changed and now I enjoy it mostly stock. I drive it a lot

 

The key to doing the brakes is understanding how this system works and adjusting it properly. Here is a link to the brake write up found under the Technical menu if you have not reviewed it yet. Brakes - P15-D24.com and Pilot-house.com. The write up tells you how to do it with or without special tools. My preference is without any special tools or gauges.  Though I made a gauge for the first time I did the brakes I found I it to be an extra few steps I did not need since I like to adjust the brakes after the drums are on to a slight rub. I ground screwdriver slots in the anchor adjusters that did not have stock flats to allow the brakes to be adjusted with the drums installed. you can grind flats if you prefer to use a wrench. You just need to remember which way to turn the adjusters once the drums are on so take a picture and mark it up or draw yourself a diagram so you have it till you don't need it. This year I rebuilt the brake system again and I am still running the single MC. I still think of adding the dual MC from time to time. But IMO the stock brake system is dependable as long as all the parts in the system are maintained in dependable condition. If your unsure of the condition like the condition of a line then you replace the line.  

 

 

[Solga]

Thank you for the write up link and the info !  My main goal, right now, is to get it running, properly, and safely so I can enjoy driving it.  I have sold or gotten rid of all of my other 'project' vehicles, and I do not want this to turn into one of those.  With that being said, my main focus will be getting the wiring and brakes up to par.  Then I will start addressing other things. 

 

Adam