1946 WD15 rear end swap...and full replumb of brakes

[lostviking]

What an ordeal! I haven't had drum brakes on anything in so long, I can't even remember the last time I did a brake job. It's been so long, I bought the nice tool for removing and installing the heavy springs at the top of the shoes, forgetting I had one in my tool box already. Oh well, now I have two. Two I wish to never use again.

 

So I studied the YouTube videos leading up to this simple task, just to remind myself. Not too bad really, pretty simple. Right! Disassembly was easy. I pulled the axle on the side I was going to do, changed the studs to the longer ones I needed, then popped it back into place. Next I removed all the old pieces, being smart enough to arrange them as installed. So far so good.

 

I cleaned the backing plates, cleaned the pieces that were going to get reused...maybe a bit late, but made sure the new shoes matched the old. No problem. I dabbed a bit of hi temp axle grease on the three rub points, for each shoe, used some copper anti-seize on the adjuster...ready to reassemble.

 

First, got rid of the old too short parking brake cable, popped the nice shiny new one in...slipped the end into the parking brake lever and proceeded to put the shoes in.

 

I don't have the fancy little tool for putting the small springs and retainers/pins that go at the center of the shoes. I've never had it, just used a pair of pliers. Today, with crappy light and bi-focals, I couldn't get the damn things on. They are slightly different than the stock ones. The stock one are wound with a small "nose" that goes into the shoe and keeps it from moving around. You know, while you hold the 800 parts together. Along with my not being able to see well enough to get the pin through the hole, then rotate the keeper to lock it, the damn parking brake lever keep falling off. More times than I care to repeat, I was putting that damn lever back into place. I was NOT going to pull the stinking pins again, so I did it with the brake shoe in place. I got pretty good at it actually.

 

The struggle continued with me getting the other shoe in. In both cases, I eventually just used the old springs and new pins. They were both the same height, but without that nose sticking through the shoe, the new ones put a bit more tension on things. Maybe I'm just getting old.

 

So I continued the vacation, got all the remaining parts at the top done, the small cable that loops down to the auto adjuster...and then started to put the adjuster in. The parking brake cable wouldn't let me put it in. The replacement, which is not the Cherokee one, but IS for another Jeep that also uses the 8.25 rear, ended up having a longer spring on the inner end. It was maybe .25 to .375 longer, but it seemed to be just enough extra length to cause the section to bow out and jam up the tensioner. This was not going to work. Period.

 

So I removed the parking brake cable. Problem solved. I don't really think there is a problem with having the parking brake level behind the shoe. With nothing pulling on it, I didn't see that it was going to do anything. I had just adjusted the stock parking brake, and it worked well enough when I forgot to release it I couldn't at first figure out why I couldn't rotate the rear to remove the axle. 

 

So in every video they suggested adjusting the tensioner to it's narrowest, which I did. I put the wheel adapters and wheels back on, thinking all I needed to do now was adjust the brake...I only did the drivers side today as I can't schedule use of the driveway with my boss...er ah wife.

 

Rotating the tire there is more resistance than I expected. Yes, brand new drums, brand new shoes, but the adjusters are slacked off completely. They are not bound, but I just don't remember them ever being so tight before. Maybe my memory is failing too and they will loosen up right away.

 

Not that I want to, but I may be back in there to take another look. I think I might just put the rear on jack stands and start it up. Try it a little in first gear to see what happens.

 

Comments welcome.

Edited January 8, 2022 by lostviking

[billrigsby]

I feel you on the drum brakes, I can't remember the last time I ever dealt with them things.

Stone Age.

It really was a learning curve, then kind of like looking for a checkbook these days, it took forever to find the drum brake tools I had.

On the one ton, just getting those cross springs on is a real chore those are some tough springs.

Glad mine are done, at least for now.

[kencombs]

I still have all my drum brake tools.  None of the springs are a problem with the right ones.  There is a drawer in one of my boxes dedicated to special tools for brakes, bearings and seals as they are often related on a job.

[lostviking]

Finally got that side done. Need to move the truck out of the garage to pull the axle when I do the other side, so not today.

 

Even though I bought new wheel cylinders, they didn't seem to be leaking, so I didn't change them. Seem.

 

I didn't think to squeeze the outer boot. When I did I got fluid. Changed the cylinder.

 

After putting it back together maybe a dozen times so far, this time went pretty smooth. I guess you can only make the same mistakes so many times. I had zero problems using my pliers to get the retaining springs on the pins.

 

After getting it all back together, the wheel spins with only minor drag and doesn't jam up. I think the top of at least one shoe was stuck out too far. With the adjusters at min, it was maybe allowing the shoe to cock and jam on one end. Either way it seems OK now. I'll bleed them after I get the other side done.

 

Thanks for the supporting comments.

[lostviking]

FINALLY!

 

It rained yesterday, so a slight delay...changed the wifes oil/filter.

 

THEN, I was able to move the truck away from the wall far enough to pull the passenger side axle. Swapped the lugs with zero drama, then the brakes came off. Without a second thought, changed the wheel cylinder...tada, no drama, the brakes went on smoothly and I buttoned it all back up. Moved the truck back over, so the wife could reclaim her parking spot and all was well in the world.

 

The adjusters are at min on both sides right now. I'll crank them up until the wheels don't turn, then back them off a bit. Bleed the brakes one more time due to the wheel cylinders and I should be done for now. Oh, readjust the brakes as necessary.

 

Some time in the future, I'd like to put a new transmission in. When I do that, the parking brakes will need to be reinstalled (the bracket I left out and the cables). I've got a pretty good idea how to do that, after a kind sole pointed out the obvious trimming of that too long spring.

 

Right now, I just want to drive it. Once the brakes are sorted the rest of the way, and the axle is refilled, it will be time to bed the brakes.

 

Couple times around the block should give me enough stops. Hope to see you on the road!

 

Tim

[lostviking]

Did the manual adjust on the rear brakes today. Cleaned the diff cover and puts some RTV on it, finger tight. I'm waiting for that to skin over, then tighten the screws all the way. I'll fill the diff then.

 

I couldn't wait entirely, so I fired the engine and let it idle...the rear is still up on jackstands. I gingerly let out the clutch, and just let it idle. I have to get out to see if the tire is moving...which of course it was. Hit the brakes, firm pedal and turned it off for now.

 

I need to go and get some gas for it because I ran the tank pretty much dry to avoid having a bunch of stale gas. I won't have enough to go anywhere, and I need to bed the brakes before I leave the block.

 

Maybe later today? Maybe tomorrow, but at least it is now soon.

[lostviking]

It is finally alive again. I took a few laps around the block today. The brakes need to be bleed and adjusted better, but they do stop it. It stops straight, and the 3.55 gears feel pretty good coming off the line. I only went around  the block a few laps, so I never got it out of 2nd gear, but even then I could tell it was moving faster, duh.

 

Tomorrow I'll ask the wife to help me bleed the brakes, then take it on a longer trip. Still not leaving the neighborhood area, but go fill the tank. When I park it after that I'll take a close look at everything and make sure it's all still tight and right.

 

Feels good.

Edited January 29, 2022 by lostviking

[lostviking]

Things went horribly wrong today. My insistence on reusing the original wheels, so I could use the chrome hub caps, bit me hard today.

I was using a wheel adapter to put the 5 on 5 wheels on the truck, rather than just buy a set of 5 on 4.5 wheels. The lugs that I was using to put the wheels on were designed for a tapered wheel, but I thought the steel ones would be OK. I couldn't have been more wrong.

I had only driven it around the block a few times. Then today I did that again, then went a little further. With less than a mile or two, it never occurred to me that the lugs could loosen. They could.

My only guess is that the tapered lugs chewed at the wheel enough to get it a bit loose. That worked on the wheel maybe, and the lugs. I had put them on at 100ft/lbs. Maybe that was what caused the failure, I just don't know.

There were several corners in my route today, so there was some load on the wheels and studs.

About two blocks from home, I heard something strange. I was moving in second gear at the time. I had been keeping things slow on purpose.

Then there was a rattling noise, and before I could react the truck pitched up a bit, then seemed to drop on the drivers side. What the heck? But I saw what the heck immediately as my tire continued down the road. I was rolling on the rotor.

I got it to the side of the road immediately, no person was hurt, no property other than my truck was damaged. I should feel thankful for that at least. But the tire had come straight out under the drivers fender and then the running board.

Both of those are heavily damaged. The bottom edge of the cab got damaged also, but I can fix that pretty easily I think. Looking at the damage, I don't think I have the skills to fix either the fender, or the running board. I know fenders are hard to come by so I am going to take a stab at it. The running board I know I can buy. The cost may drive me to take a hammer to it also though. I guess my feeble sheet metal skills are going to have to improve.

The rotor is toast of course. I'll order a new one. I'll take everything apart on that side and clean any metal dust before I reassemble it.

I purchased a set of 15x7 steel wheels with the right back space and bolt pattern. I'll be kicking myself for a long time over that. If I had done that originally, I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now.

I've rarely been as depressed as now. The wheel adapters are not at fault, but they are being removed as soon as I can get the new wheels and have my tires swapped. What a depressing day. I hope yours went better.

Regards,

Tim

[billrigsby]

WOW, so sorry to hear that, must have been a sinking feeling.

I have never seen one of my wheels pass me, but heard several stories.

And no one more.  ?

 

 

[Veemoney]

Disheartening just reading about it.

The upside that no one was physically hurt, and damage was limited to your own truck should let you focus on the repairs. As much as I hate doing body work and frugal as I sometimes can be, I would be content knowing damage was limited to my truck and things I could fix. 

[lostviking]

Thank you for the good wishes. That nobody got hurt, and there was no damage other than my truck is the one upside. I still can't explain what happened. I used a digital torque wrench on those lugs. All the others were intake, just this one had the threads destroyed. I just can't be sure what happened. My only guess is like I said above, the lug nuts were the wrong ones to use on my steel wheels, and they must have eroded the metal, opening up the holes. Once they were loose at all, it just steamrolled from there. There was only one corner that really had any significant load, and it felt funny at the time. Unfortunately I knew the tires were a bit low and chocked it up to that. I believe if I had stopped right there I would have seen the problem starting and avoided this. Hindsight is 20-20, and it sucks sometimes.

 

I bought four new wheels, with the 4.5 inch bolt circle, so no more adapters. My stock wheels seem to have about a 3.5 inch backspace, but I could only buy 4 inch BS. I'm waiting on a .25 inch spacer set to arrive as the fronts hit the rod from the steering box on the drivers side. I'll put the spacers on both fronts.

 

I'm going to start a new thread, since this one is a dead horse anymore. I'll post the horror pictures there, and listen to any advice that is given. I'm not experienced with body working metal, but I do have the internet...

[lostviking]

Reviving an old thread to talk about brake line fittings at my master cylinder. I used a Toyota master cylinder, and originally I epoxied an adapter to get regular SAE 3/16 type, thread and double flair fittings. I worked. But...

 

While I am waiting on other issues to be resolved, I decided to "fix" a few things. I never liked the brake switch hanging down below my proportioning valve, and I didn't like having expoxied fittings.

 

I purchased some M10x1.0mm flair end fittings off Amazon and redid it all. I had the rear of the master connected the rear brakes, which I believe was wrong, so I swapped them in the lines to the proportioning valve. This time I used the metric flair nuts. The master cylinder ports and threads were completely clean. I was able to remove the adapter fittings, which is another reason I didn't want to leave them glued in place. When I was originally swapping the lines, I noticed one moved and broke the epoxy joint. Pulled the whole thing out of the truck and took it to my work bench.

 

This time I made nice new brake lines, moved the brake switch up to the top fitting and ran the front disks off the bottom (proportioning valve) fitting. I put a nice tight loop there, so it's all protected and nothing hangs down now.

 

The M10 flair nuts I bought had threads all the way to the ends, which is what I'm used to with the SAE ones, so I didn't give it a thought. Then, both of them leaked. I tried to tighten them, but my flair wrench is flimsy maybe and they just leaked. I read a bit on the internet and it seems that the Toyota flair nuts are supposed to have a bare nipple where the threads end short of the tip. Most I see pictures have at least two to three threads missing.

 

I'm going to take some to work and pop them in the lathe to remove a few threads.

 

Does anyone know for sure if that is my problem? Thanks.

[Los_Control]

I had problems with that conversion also .... My first failed attempt I used a 3/16" adapter.

The threads were a little sloppy going into the 10mm .... once it bottomed out it was tight.

It is the shape of the bottom where it seals ....... possibly you can use thread tape and seal the threads .... proper fittings you should not need tape to seal.

 

I wrapped thread tape on them, tightened it all good and bled them out fine .... later it started leaking.

 

Now I just ordered 10mm male to 3/16" female adapters from amazon .... everything went together just fine, I expect no problems from the fittings again. ..... I'm working on other things and have the toe boards out so I have not yet bled them out again.

 

Think I got it .... feel confident I got it ... just not tested yet.

 

 

[lostviking]

Thanks, the end of those adapters is what I find is correct. You can just buy the 10mm flair nuts for 3/16 tube, no need to use the adapters. That's what I am doing, but the ones I purchased were threaded right to the ends. I'm going to remove the last couple threads tomorrow and redo the brake lines one more time. Edit: Just the ones going from the master to the prop valve

 

At least the layout and everything is pretty nice now, this nothing hanging down to get caught and ripped loose.

Edited December 10, 2023 by lostviking

[lostviking]

Thankfully the Dodge Brothers looked down on me with kindness today. I pulled the master out and replaced the lines to the proportioning valve using the M10x1.0 fittings I cut in the lathe. I took off about 2-3 threads and cleaned them up some.

 

I remade one line from scratch and the other was long enough I was able to just cut the offending fitting off and reflair. I bought one of those nice flairing tools someone mentioned...single size that you could use under the truck if needed. The rear side of the flair was a bit deformed looking, like the recess isn't machined quite right, but I'm not getting any leaks, so I'm happy.

 

Once again I got lucky and was able to take the dry master and install it, fill it and just do some pumping. I get a hard pedal. Never had a master that didn't need bench bleeding before, but this toyo one has bled for me each time in the truck. Go figure.

 

Anyway, this thread is now finished...again