Bob Riding Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 I am looking at putting a '49 Dodge Truck engine, either the 230 or the 236, into my P10 wagon. (I have a sweet running 230 and I can get a rebuilt 236 for about $500.) My concern is that with the OD unit that George Asche installed on my P10 tranny it might be too long or might not be compatible with either, but especially the 236, which the "Dodge B -Series Trucks Restorer's Guide compares to a 236 Desoto motor. I assume this is the 2" longer block. Anybody have experience with this combination? thanks Bob Quote
Merle Coggins Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 I would think that if you use the 230 engine all would be fine. What engine is in there now? You'd have to use your bell housing and etc., so the trans should bolt up the same. But then again I'm just speculating as I know nothing about your P10 Merle Quote
Bob Riding Posted October 11, 2007 Author Report Posted October 11, 2007 Merle; It's got no engine now (just rolling frame and cowl.) I do have the original 201, but it's not in good condition and others have suggested that the 230 would be a good choice. The 236 seems even better (more hp and torque) Quote
Merle Coggins Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 WOW!! If that's all you have to work with I'd say you'd need more than an engine. Where's the rest of it? I think the 201 and 230 would have the same basic block, and so would be a direct swap, more or less. The 236 would be a "big block" and would probably need some sort of modification to fit. Still, I don't think the transmission end would need the modifications. The engine would end sticking farther forward. (I think) Quote
Tony_Urwin Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 There are two different length input shafts for the transmission, depending on whether you use the 23' or 25" block. Quote
Bob Riding Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 Tony; So I guess that is the deciding factor. Thanks Quote
Bob Riding Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 WOW!! If that's all you have to work with I'd say you'd need more than an engine. Where's the rest of it? I think the 201 and 230 would have the same basic block, and so would be a direct swap, more or less. The 236 would be a "big block" and would probably need some sort of modification to fit. Still, I don't think the transmission end would need the modifications. The engine would end sticking farther forward. (I think) In pieces and parts Quote
Young Ed Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 I've never heard about the 2 lenghts of tranny input shafts. I would think that would just be dependent on using the matching bellhousing. I got a 47 WC pickup for parts that had a long block installed way back when. Still had the factory WC bellhousing and truck tranny as far as I could tell. Front mount was bolted to some little pieces of angle iron welded to the frame. Quote
Bob Riding Posted October 12, 2007 Author Report Posted October 12, 2007 Dodge did a major revamp in '48 with the Pilothouse series. I wonder if they are that different from the power wagons? Quote
Merle Coggins Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 From what I know, the Power Wagons use the 230 (23") engine with similar engine mounting system. The trans would be different because it will have a transfer case for the 4WD. Pilot-House trucks use the 218 engine in the 1/2 & 3/4 ton trucks and the 230 in the 1 tons. When you get to the 1 1/2 ton and up you'll get the larger block 236, 251, etc. Truck bell housings and transmissions are quite different than those in cars. Truck bell housings incorporate the rear engine mounts and also hold the brake M/C along with brake and clutch pedals. As for the different length input shafts... I thought that was only with Fluid Drive. Transmissions for Fluid Drive have a longer input shaft than those for clutch only setups. I don't understand why it's like that, but that's how I understand it. Merle Quote
Tony_Urwin Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 George Asche rebuilt an overdrive transmission for me. The R-10 he rebuilt for me came out of a P-15 with a 218 truck motor in it. George replaced the input shaft with a longer shaft for my longer DeSoto flathead. That's the source of my limited understanding of this issue. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Tony..did not your DeSoto have the fluid drive as stock and as such would have the longer profile bellhousing and this is something that will have to remain with the car due to the mounting points on the rear of the housing? That is the case for the two different lengths of input shaft...one for standard clutch and the other for the fluid drive... Quote
blueskies Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Tony..did not your DeSoto have the fluid drive as stock and as such would have the longer profile bellhousing and this is something that will have to remain with the car due to the mounting points on the rear of the housing? That is the case for the two different lengths of input shaft...one for standard clutch and the other for the fluid drive... I think you are right Tim... The engine itself has nothing to do with the transmission input pinion shafts. It is my understanding that the bell housings are where the differences are. The 2" in length between the two blocks would be taken up at the front of the engine, and would require modifiction to the front motor mount, and possibly moving the radiator forward the same amount. Don Coatney has done these mods on his '48 P15. He also had to modify the front frame crossmember to accomodate the lower pulley/balancer. Not sure if this would need to be done with the truck frame or not. Pete Quote
Tony_Urwin Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 Tim is correct in his assumption that I am using the DeSoto bellhousing from a fluid-drive model. George Asche furnished the input shaft and throw out bearing. So perhaps the different length shafts are for different bellhousings, not different length blocks. As I remember it, the fluid drive transmission had a much different shaft, and (I think) a different spline count. I'll be talking to George soon (when I have a spare hour or two); I'll ask him. I may even drive over to his place this weekend, since I need a transmission for my truck. Sorry if I confused the issue at hand. Quote
greg g Posted October 13, 2007 Report Posted October 13, 2007 I believe he is at Hershey this weekend. Quote
Tony_Urwin Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 George doesn't go to Hershey. He does go to Carlisle twice a year. Anyway, I spoke with him yesterday. He says he puts 3 different shafts on his overdrives, depending on the bellhousing. There is the input shaft for dry clutch bellhousing and the shaft for fluid drive.To convert a fluid drive bellhousing to dry clutch, he uses an input shaft from a later Mopar (he thought it was from an early hemi). I got the feeling I had pryed loose one of his trade secrets. Quote
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