wallytoo Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Jeff Balazs said: There is definitely more than one approach to fuel delivery. The solution I chose was to install a full time electric fuel pump back at the tank and ditch the mechanical pump altogether. This was a change I decided upon as I read various posting regarding pump failures. I feel that it has been 100% effective in preventing 3 fairly common problems. I have not had my truck stall in traffic due to a simple pump failure. Even more critical there is no path for raw fuel to enter the crankcase during a major pump failure. And It has helped eliminate hard starting problems when the engine is hot. The pump I installed is a large rotary vane pump and it has a sealed canister type fuel filter ahead of it and one just before the carb. This has worked flawlessly for more than 5 years of regular use. After reading some of the horror stories here and elsewhere I wouldn't do it any other way. Jeff agree about fuel delivery. i will say that both the old motor - a 237 - and the new motor - a 251 - start better when hot than cold. it was and is instant, and always has been. when i push the starter pedal, the engine is instantly on if the truck is warm or hot, as in less than half a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted September 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Dave72dt said: There should be two check valves in the pump that can be removed as well as the push rod that operates the pump. If the check valves are correctly installed and are not plugged, they should not impair the flow of fuel being pushed by an electric pump. They are very low pressure valves and broken or rusty springs or a little dirt or rust can prevent them from functioning properly. That was my understanding as well on how these pumps work. I plan to use the electric pump as a pusher pump more than anything else. It's my understanding that the electric pump that I bought will also pass fuel through when it's not running. On initial start up in the morning or when the engine is hot would be the main use for the pump. Time will tell if I made the right decisions Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 I have an electric fuel pump on my truck too. I initially had it inline with the mechanical pump to assist in filling the carb after a long period between uses. I found that sometimes it couldn't pump through the mechanical pump, but if I cranked the engine briefly it would begin to flow. I believe the diaphragm position had something to do with that. I also found that it was handy to switch on when things got hot under the hood and the mechanical pump struggled to pump. The electric pump would give a boost to the mechanical pump and the engine would run better. Since then I have replumbed it to run in parallel with the mechanical pump. They both have internal check valves that prevent back flow. I ran a second fuel line, along side the first one, for the electric pump. A tee fitting at the outlet of the tank to feed both circuits, and a tee fitting at the outlet of the mechanical pump to merge the pump outlets. This has worked well for me for the last couple of years. I can still use the electric pump to prime the carb without worry about the mechanical pump blocking it. And I can still use it as a booster if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Balazs Posted September 29, 2020 Report Share Posted September 29, 2020 As I said there are a lot of different ways to approach the fuel delivery system. And certainly no one way is perfect. My way is perhaps shaded by knowing of and hearing about mechanical pump diaphragm failures that allowed raw fuel to enter the crankcase and do serious damage. I for one don't ever want to be the guy that happens to.? Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) I made a lot of progress since my last post. Other than filling the steering gearbox with corn head grease the steering system and front suspension is totally complete. Installing the support clamp around the steering column was a small chore due to the rubber isolator. I bought it new from DCM Classics and it was a really snug fit. I had to use fully threaded 1/4" bolts to get it drawn up close enough to where I could install the 3/8" bolts. The truck is now back to sitting on it's wheels although I still need to torque the lug nuts to final torque. Rotating the steering wheel from side to side yields maybe an 1" of movement before you feel resistance. That's considerably better than the 1/4 turn of the wheel that was there previously! I painted the intake and exhaust manifolds last week and installed them yesterday. I think it only took me five tries to get everything line up right and the correct studs in the correct holes, but they are installed Now it's time to start thinking about throttle linkage again. I didn't realize it previously so I was somewhat surprised to find the clutch and brake pedals aren't in the same plane. The clutch pedal is something like 1-1/2" or so closer to the firewall. Any idea why Dodge put them that way? Lastly I need help identifying which side of the windshield gasket faces out. I have someone coming Monday to install all of the cab glass (except doors) and I'd like to make sure it's installed properly! One side has a recessed section for the center bar. And the other side is totally flat. Which side is faces out?! Brad Edited October 3, 2020 by bkahler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Cab glass is installed and it makes the truck look totally different The good news is he came prepared. Years ago I had replacement windshield panes cut and I've been waiting all this time to get them installed. Well, last night I was washing one of the windshield panes and yep, it slipped out of my hand and chipped a corner ☹️ So I call the installer and he said he would bring some glass and cut a new one. He arrives, sets up and cuts a new piece of glass and we proceed to install the windshield. Unfortunately it seems it's to short on one side so we remove the glass and do some checking. I happened to still have four or five old panes that I'd hoarded for years. Comparing the new ones to the old ones it turns out the one that I gave to the glass company years ago to use as a pattern was 1/4" shorter than the other four. Fortunately he had enough glass to make a second pane to the longer dimension. The second time around the windshield install went just fine. The rear center window went in nicely as well. As we were talking about the corner windows he told me he was concerned with installing them because the last time he did a dodge like mine the rubber gaskets were really poorly made and he spent hours getting them to work which included trimming the rubber itself. My gaskets were from Steele and he was amazed at how easily they fit and how easy they were to put in. I think each corner window took less than 5 minutes to install. He didn't use rope on them, just a pick with me pushing on the glass from the inside and him using the pick to pull the rubber out around the metal lip. He said you get what you pay for and those Steele gaskets were the best he's worked with. The truck already looks totally different with the glass installed. Brad 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Looks great Brad! Probably goes without saying but, (for the next guy reading this) on the windshield, i filled the ends of the exterior division bar (hollow) with a sealant, to help prevent water from working around the threads of the interior to exterior screws. ? Edited October 5, 2020 by Brent B3B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 59 minutes ago, Brent B3B said: Looks great Brad! Probably goes without saying but, (for the next guy reading this) i filled the ends of the exterior division bar (hollow) with a sealant, to help prevent water from working around the threads of the interior to exterior screws. ? Thanks It's interesting that you bring up the exterior bar. I was looking at mine this morning and noticed both ends had some kind of soft sealant stuck in the ends and I was wondering why they did it. Now I know! Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 19 hours ago, Brent B3B said: Looks great Brad! Probably goes without saying but, (for the next guy reading this) on the windshield, i filled the ends of the exterior division bar (hollow) with a sealant, to help prevent water from working around the threads of the interior to exterior screws. ? LOL, I get water ingress on the bottom of the windshield (at speed) is it wicks around and under the glass. Seems old glass was thicker (or my gasket channel is wider) than back in the day. So, be prepared for chasing water ingress for a bit if you are worried about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 2 hours ago, ggdad1951 said: LOL, I get water ingress on the bottom of the windshield (at speed) is it wicks around the and under the glass. Seems old glass was thicker (or my gasket channel is wider) than back in the day. So, be prepared for chasing water ingress for a bit if you are worried about that. In these old trucks speed is subjective I measured my new glass and it is .246" thick and the old glass seemed to be right at .250" thick. Not sure if .004 would make that much difference but I suppose it could. Steele's instructions say to use 3M Clear Auto Sealer 96-8551-96 between the rubber and the glass on the outer side using a flat applicator. Unfortunately this product is no longer available and I haven't found a recommended substitute anywhere. What I will likely use is 3M Auto Bedding and Glazing Compound, 08509. I used this product on my motorhome windshields with great success. I used it between the rubber and the cab and the rubber and the glass. Back to Brent's comment about the outside division bar I found that the top of mine was sealed and the bottom was left open. Brad 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 yah at some point I have to have a local glass guy come by and seal things up with something....driving in a heavy rain this summer sucked, the wife and I had 3 rags going to keep things dry at the bottom of the glass. I know it was coming around the glass because it was welling up on top of the rubber on the inside of the glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBNeal Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 My experience has been that rubber gaskets need to be slightly undersized on interior perimeter and slightly oversized on exterior perimeter to establish a fluid- or gas-tight seal so that the rubber is forced into any mating surface irregularities, otherwise the rubber just flops around enough to allow leaks...after learning the hard way, I use an appropriate sealant on rubber to fill in those really small gaps like those 3M products, following the application instructions to the letter, and have not seen a leak since...haven't done anything as big as a windshield, but I've done sight glasses on reservoir tanks, replaced some flat glass on DoD projects, and replaced glass on heavy equipment instrumentation that is exposed to the elements year-round, so far nobody's cussed at my workmanship 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 on my gasket from roberts, i installed using a light coating of blue rtv around the entire glass/rubber interface. no leaks in over 12 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 hours ago, wallytoo said: on my gasket from roberts, i installed using a light coating of blue rtv around the entire glass/rubber interface. no leaks in over 12 years. It would be interesting (to me at least) to know what the factory might have used if anything to help seal the gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 hours ago, ggdad1951 said: yah at some point I have to have a local glass guy come by and seal things up with something....driving in a heavy rain this summer sucked, the wife and I had 3 rags going to keep things dry at the bottom of the glass. I know it was coming around the glass because it was welling up on top of the rubber on the inside of the glass. That's the same sort of symptoms I had with my motorhome. It was obvious it was coming through the glass to rubber section. The 3M product I mentioned previously is probably what I'll use. It'll give me something to do this winter......! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 hours ago, JBNeal said: My experience has been that rubber gaskets need to be slightly undersized on interior perimeter and slightly oversized on exterior perimeter to establish a fluid- or gas-tight seal so that the rubber is forced into any mating surface irregularities, otherwise the rubber just flops around enough to allow leaks...after learning the hard way, I use an appropriate sealant on rubber to fill in those really small gaps like those 3M products, following the application instructions to the letter, and have not seen a leak since...haven't done anything as big as a windshield, but I've done sight glasses on reservoir tanks, replaced some flat glass on DoD projects, and replaced glass on heavy equipment instrumentation that is exposed to the elements year-round, so far nobody's cussed at my workmanship What you've experienced makes sense. It would be cool if someone had access to the build instructions that the factory workers used when they were building these trucks. That would make for great bedtime reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Another little piece of the puzzle finished yesterday. Thanks JB, the cover cleaned up nicely Brad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 this year, i’m running without the clutch cover, mostly to see if i can prevent mice from nesting in there (without the bottom, there’s nowhere for the nest to sit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 11 hours ago, wallytoo said: this year, i’m running without the clutch cover, mostly to see if i can prevent mice from nesting in there (without the bottom, there’s nowhere for the nest to sit). How are they getting in? On mine it seems that the tolerances are fairly tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 missing the plug at the top of the bellhousing, under the toe boards. if i close that, they can’t get in. until then, open it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 1 hour ago, wallytoo said: missing the plug at the top of the bellhousing, under the toe boards. if i close that, they can’t get in. until then, open it is. I'll have to look tonight to see if I can find the hole you're referring to, or maybe I haven't noticed it because a plug may already be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallytoo Posted October 8, 2020 Report Share Posted October 8, 2020 plug is right at the top. and, in looking through some of my parts, i found the plug this morning and installed it, along with the lower bellhousing covers. all closed up - no mice this year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 10/8/2020 at 9:44 AM, wallytoo said: plug is right at the top. and, in looking through some of my parts, i found the plug this morning and installed it, along with the lower bellhousing covers. all closed up - no mice this year. I'm guessing this is the plug you're referring to. No mice for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Mounted the brake proportioning valve this morning. With the MC and the proportioning valve installed I can now start trying to piece together the rest of the brake system. The rears aren't too hard to figure out. I'm able to reuse the 1/4" line from the brake tee on the frame to the hose at the rear. The rear brake hose will be reused as well as the tee that was mounted on the original diff along with it's breather tube. Note: when I say reuse, I mean I'll be able to use the new components that I bought when I was still planning on using the stock braking system. Every component in the brake system will be brand new with the exception of the two brake tee's. On the diff the brake lines will change from 1/4" at the tee to 3/16" line over to each caliper. For the fronts I still have concerns with the brake hoses that Charlie spec'd for the front calipers. For the moment the hoses seem to be a couple inches to short to work. I suppose when the truck is fully assembled and the suspension compresses a little more the hoses might work but I'm concerned about rebound and/or when the front end is on jack stands and the suspension is hanging down. If I move the mounting holes on the frame down a few inches for the hoses they would probably work. I'll be playing more with the front hoses over the coming days. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkahler Posted October 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 I'm a little bit stumped about something. I'm ready to install the speedometer drive gear and I have the seal that JB recommends and I assume it is supposed to go between where the pen is pointing in the picture below. The nut on the right has no recess for a seal to reside in so I'm not sure I understand how this is supposed to work. Any help would be appreciated. The transmission is the NP420. Thanks! Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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