Looking for advice about an A833 swap.

[55 Fargo]

6 hours ago, cavisco1 said:

GM used this same transmission with GM’s own 10-spline input shaft, input bearing and retainer:
o 1981 to 1986 Chevrolet 2- and 4- wheel drive pickups and Suburban (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
o General Engines designated this transmission code MY6.

This may open up some options for tailshafts and shifters. I will leave further research to you.

 

4 hours ago, Young Ed said:

What someone putting GM parts in a Mopar???

Not likely U2, you need to check out your facts on the GM version.

 

GM transmission code MY6. I have one in my truck. The internals are regular A833 OD. The transmission case, input shaft, input bearing retainer, output shaft, tail housing are all GM specific. It does not bolt up to a regular GMbellhousing as it has a hybrid GM/Mopar bellhousing pattern, so it needs a specific bellhousing. Somewhere along the way they made the pattern all GM apparently. The input bearing retainer is a week spot (I spent two months looking for one that wasn't broken). I would say that if you had a regular A-833 and wanted to change the gearing to an OD gear set, you could probably use the internals, but as a complete transmission swap, it won't work.

 

[Young Ed]

We arent talking about the whole trans just the tail section. Do you know if that interchanges??

Edited September 4, 2019 by Young Ed

[55 Fargo]

20 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

We arent talking about the whole trans just the tail section. Do you know if that interchanges??

Any info ive researched appears not but who knows.

The innards are all the same.

And again the Mopar or GM overdrive  versions are not in the same league as the 4spd A833 behind a 440 or 426..

[Adam H P15 D30]

18 hours ago, Young Ed said:

What someone putting GM parts in a Mopar???

Yes, about 90% of 12v conversions use a GM 10Si alternator  

[Old CWO]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:40 PM, SmokeyC3 said:

Off topic vehicle ,but I did this one. The bracket has to be beefy enough or it will flex and eventually break. Shift linkages took some fiddling and they weren't all correct on the first try. The reverse link has some pretty hard bends that flexed when shifting so it got a gusset plate added. With a little patience it's doable.

 

I like that you moved the lever towards the center while modifying.  It looks more correct for a pickup truck that way.

[Fargone]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:29 PM, cavisco1 said:

GM used this same transmission with GM’s own 10-spline input shaft, input bearing and retainer:
o 1981 to 1986 Chevrolet 2- and 4- wheel drive pickups and Suburban (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
o General Engines designated this transmission code MY6.

This may open up some options for tailshafts and shifters. I will leave further research to you.

It's not really the same transmission, other than internal components it does not fit this application. The Aok adapter plate between the bell housing and trans is not compatible with the  GM version.

[cavisco1]

Fargone,

 

I was not suggesting that the entire GM transmission will work as a swap candidate. Sorry for the confusion. I was merely suggesting that if the tailshafts interchange then that may open up some alternatives on tailshaft length and shifter position. I don't know if the tailshaft from a GM version will bolt on or not. As I said in my original post, I will leave further research to you should you decide it has merit. I am really enjoying this thread so please keep us posted on your progress.

Good luck with your project,

 

Scott.

[Young Ed]

3 hours ago, cavisco1 said:

Fargone,

 

I was not suggesting that the entire GM transmission will work as a swap candidate. Sorry for the confusion. I was merely suggesting that if the tailshafts interchange then that may open up some alternatives on tailshaft length and shifter position. I don't know if the tailshaft from a GM version will bolt on or not. As I said in my original post, I will leave further research to you should you decide it has merit. I am really enjoying this thread so please keep us posted on your progress.

Good luck with your project,

 

Scott.

It would make sense that they would change the front to a gm pattern. There wouldn't be a logical reason to change the tailshaft between the versions 

[55 Fargo]

7 hours ago, Young Ed said:

It would make sense that they would change the front to a gm pattern. There wouldn't be a logical reason to change the tailshaft between the versions 

Mount reasons.

The A833 mounts in same location and type as A904 and 727 with corresponding splined output shafts.

Edited September 7, 2019 by 55 Fargo

[Fargone]

Ok I've spent some time coming up with templates for moving shifter forward. Option "A" is a straight forward move of roughly 5 1/2" toward the bellhousing. Option "B" is more complex moving not only forward 5 1/2" but up  3" as well.

I'm inclined to the more simple approach, but I'd like some feedback on why some have raised the shifter position. Both choices obviously involve a modified shifter and shift linkage. Option "A" appears to involve less potential for shift linkage problems.

[Fargone]

On 9/7/2019 at 6:36 AM, 55 Fargo said:

Mount reasons.

The A833 mounts in same location and type as A904 and 727 with corresponding splined output shafts.

 

On 9/4/2019 at 12:59 PM, Old CWO said:

 

I like that you moved the lever towards the center while modifying.  It looks more correct for a pickup truck that way.

Sorry about duplicate post but I meant it to be a quote for you two guys. Ok I've spent some time coming up with templates for moving shifter forward. Option "A" is a straight forward move of roughly 5 1/2" toward the bellhousing. Option "B" is more complex moving not only forward 5 1/2" but up  3" as well.

I'm inclined to the more simple approach, but I'd like some feedback on why some have raised the shifter position. Both choices obviously involve a modified shifter and shift linkage. Option "A" appears to involve less potential for shift linkage problems. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Fargone
duplicate post

[Old CWO]

1 hour ago, Fargone said:

 

Sorry about duplicate post but I meant it to be a quote for you two guys. Ok I've spent some time coming up with templates for moving shifter forward. Option "A" is a straight forward move of roughly 5 1/2" toward the bellhousing. Option "B" is more complex moving not only forward 5 1/2" but up  3" as well.

I'm inclined to the more simple approach, but I'd like some feedback on why some have raised the shifter position. Both choices obviously involve a modified shifter and shift linkage. Option "A" appears to involve less potential for shift linkage problems. 

 

I would think the solution you see in SmokeyC3's photo is going to be the easiest to sort out.  It appears the shifter is moved straight forward just like your option "A," but it looks like he fabricated a bracket to move the lever itself to the center of the truck.  Not sure if that added leverage makes the Hurst type shifter mechanism any sloppier, perhaps he can chime in.  I know the Dodge trucks with factory A833s have the lever in line with the shifter  - mechanically sound,  I just don't like the way it looks in the older trucks.

 

Where would option "B" place the shifter mechanism?  It looks like it might fall right in the center of the floor board which would be sort of difficult to cover up without a tunnel or gigantic boot.  Both of those options sound unattractive and add work for no good reason.  

 

Kudos to you for tackling this!  I have always disliked fiddling with external linkage shifters and tend to shy away from transmissions that use them.

[55 Fargo]

Fargone my shifter is a stock Hurst for a 79 or 80 D100 

Now its positioned high enough for the driver to comfortably shift and to allow a passenger to sit in the middle seat ( barely Im sure) 

Your option A looks good and should get you where you wanna be.

Look forward to your progress.

[T120]

14 minutes ago, 55 Fargo said:

Fargone my shifter is a stock Hurst for a 79 or 80 D100 

Now its positioned high enough for the driver to comfortably shift and to allow a passenger to sit in the middle seat ( barely Im sure) 

Your option A looks good and should get you where you wanna be.

Look forward to your progress.

And remember to act as a gentleman -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qv2vzMeMCE

[Fargone]

25 minutes ago, Old CWO said:

 

I would think the solution you see in SmokeyC3's photo is going to be the easiest to sort out.  It appears the shifter is moved straight forward just like your option "A," but it looks like he fabricated a bracket to move the lever itself to the center of the truck.  Not sure if that added leverage makes the Hurst type shifter mechanism any sloppier, perhaps he can chime in.  I know the Dodge trucks with factory A833s have the lever in line with the shifter  - mechanically sound,  I just don't like the way it looks in the older trucks.

 

Where would option "B" place the shifter mechanism?  It looks like it might fall right in the center of the floor board which would be sort of difficult to cover up without a tunnel or gigantic boot.  Both of those options sound unattractive and add work for no good reason.  

 

Kudos to you for tackling this!  I have always disliked fiddling with external linkage shifters and tend to shy away from transmissions that use them.

I can't speak for the guys that have raised the shifter, but there is a long distance to the floor from the shifter I'm guessing that's why they raised it.  I'm also guessing that leaving the pivot point low makes for a rather long throw in the gear changes. Not sure that's why I'm asking.

[Dave72dt]

The closer the shifter can be placed to the floor, the smaller the hole in the floor has to be and the shorter the shift handle can be.  With a mostly flat floor in these trucks instead of a tunnel, you'll likely want that shifter moved up. 

[Old CWO]

A month or two ago I spied a Blazer with the GM version of the A833  at a local u-pull-it yard.  It was the 4x4 version so I think that pushes the shifter fairly far forward (and up?) to clear the t-case adapter.  I can try and get over there this week and see if it's still there by chance.  Maybe some pictures and measurements from an OEM placement could help.  Obviously the GM truck has a trans tunnel instead of a flat floor, but we can see how close to the sheet metal GM set the shifter body as a reference.  I think the shifter itself was identical to the Mopar truck version, or at least very similar with a different lever.  

 

I'll post here with results if I can get them.  This particular yard gets picked pretty hard so I am not hopeful it's still there unmolested.  I thought about grabbing that transmission but ultimately decided it would be hard to flip the 4x4 version.

 

 

 

 

[Fargone]

On 9/16/2019 at 8:05 AM, Dave72dt said:

The closer the shifter can be placed to the floor, the smaller the hole in the floor has to be and the shorter the shift handle can be.  With a mostly flat floor in these trucks instead of a tunnel, you'll likely want that shifter moved up. 

Thanks for the feedback, I'm going to reinstall the trans for another mock up session. I really don't want a giant hole in the floor. 

[Old CWO]

Unfortunately the Blazer at the U Pull It yard is gone so no pictures or measurements of a factory A833 installation.

 

 

[Sniper]

The tail housing you need is the later B/E body style.  Chrysler had two basic versions of the A833, the short on that you have.  It only has one shifter location, there is no short version with a forward mount.  There are two versions of the long tail housing, one has two mounts, that;s the later B/E style,  the other only has the forward mount, that's the early B style.  Tail shafts also need to match tail housing length.  I have a couple of the late B/E style A833's in my spares pile.  Might have to look at this swap.

 

Truck applications used a plate to relocate the shifter forward and up, someone posted a pic in this thread.