218 Timing Issues

[FmShultz13]

Hello folks. I have a 51 218 motor in a 51 Concord. I have compression tested the motor and all Cylinders match within 10 psi and all cylinders are around 90. I have rebuilt the carburetor and can get the car to run momentarily if feathering the gas. I attempted to static time it today using the method on this forum and when timing is set to tdc on cylinder 6  no matter the distributor adjustment the points will not open. Any ideas?

[DonaldSmith]

For a 6 cylinder engine, the lobes are 60 degrees apart.  You should be able to turn the distributor 30 degrees in one direction or the other, to open the points.  Check the bolts on the base of the distributor for minor and major adjustments.  Somoene recently posted some good pictures of the distrubutor, showing the parts at the base.  

[FmShultz13]

Loosening the distributor bolt and turning the distributor in either direction will not open the points. 

[Don Coatney]

27 minutes ago, DonaldSmith said:

Someone recently posted some good pictures of the distrubutor, showing the parts at the base.  

 

Who would have done such a thing?

 

[FmShultz13]

Thanks a bunch guys. With the engine set on 0 degrees TDC per cylinder 6 neither adjustment allows the cam to open the points

[DonaldSmith]

What happens when a lobe is right at the rubbing block of the points?  (That's the idea of rotating the distributor.) Maybe the points aren't adjusted to open the specified gap, or open at all.. 

[Merle Coggins]

Maybe you need to adjust the points? With the rub block at the point of the cam lobes are the points still closed?

[FmShultz13]

They open and close properly when a love actually reaches them. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

2 minutes ago, FmShultz13 said:

They open and close properly when a love actually reaches them. 

 

people....love your points for longevity….

Edited September 26, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[DJ194950]

What do you have to do to get the points on a lobe and open??

 

DJ

[DonaldSmith]

I'm not following. 

 

You set cylinders 1 and 6 at top dead center.  The distributor shaft is now set where it is.  Now you rotate the distributor body until the rub strip of the points is on the nearest lobe.  To rotate the body for minor adjustment, loosen the screw at the base that is looking at you.  If the rotation is not enough, loosen the bolt on the underside of the body (major adjustment).  

 

Here's where the illustrations and procedures in the shop manual should help. I've been through this; the more carefully I read the manual, the better it turns out.  I learned this after blowing out the muffler and having a half-hour ringing in my ears. 

[Don Coatney]

4 hours ago, FmShultz13 said:

Hello folks. I have a 51 218 motor in a 51 Concord. I have compression tested the motor and all Cylinders match within 10 psi and all cylinders are around 90. I have rebuilt the carburetor and can get the car to run momentarily if feathering the gas. I attempted to static time it today using the method on this forum and when timing is set to tdc on cylinder 6  no matter the distributor adjustment the points will not open. Any ideas?

 

58 minutes ago, FmShultz13 said:

Thanks a bunch guys. With the engine set on 0 degrees TDC per cylinder 6 neither adjustment allows the cam to open the points

 

So if the points do not open how is it possible to run momentarily? 

[FmShultz13]

Sorry for not being clear. At cylinder 1 and 6 at top dead center neither adjustment will get the points to open. Timing had to be adjusted to as close to TDC as possible to get them to open. About an inch away from the timing marks. 

[sser2]

Centrifugal and/or vacuum advance mechanisms might have seized or malfunctioning otherwise, which would cause distributor cam to get stuck in a wrong position. You probably need to rebuild your distributor.

Edited September 26, 2018 by sser2

[FmShultz13]

The dizzy cam will spring back when twisted and let go.

[sser2]

1 minute ago, FmShultz13 said:

The dizzy cam will spring back when twisted and let go.

But apparently it doesn't spring back to its original correct position. This could happen if, for example, vacuum pot is stuck in the middle. You should use shop manual procedures to check the distributor. Twist and spring back is not a recommended test.

[FmShultz13]

When attempting to start the car manipulating the throttle will get it to putter momentarily but won’t stay running. Looking to replace distributor with a Langdons HEI. 

[maok]

You really need to examine the breaker points and see why they are not opening with the distributor cam lobe, it may not be installed correctly. Also, your coil will get hot if the points do not open at all. As Don implied, there will be no spark if the points do not open at all.

 

Any pics of the points?

[FmShultz13]

The points will open correctly when the lobe hits them. I have checked the breaker and points with a test light and the open and close with the lobe. The issue I have found is when the car is TDC neither adjustment will allow a lobe to hit the breaker. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

what is TDC......actual as set with a degree wheel and piston stop or are you relying on a possible slipped harmonic balancer with x degree of error

[FmShultz13]

I set tdc using the timing plug removed and a piece of thick wire watching it rise and fall and listening for the valves opening and closing. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

as the piston approaches TDC the movement is such that there is little way one can ascertain with any accuracy he is at TDC....you need a degree wheel and a piston stop....at TDC or BDC the rotation of the crank is such that there is no piston movement therefore you cannot read this lull....it must be set from either side of TDC and divided and then established with the degree wheel.

[maok]

It sounds to me like you just need to advance or retard the distributor to make it run properly.

[FmShultz13]

Gonna have my dad crank it while I slowly rotate the distributor tomorrow. 

[soth122003]

Not to sound sarcastic or condescending, Burt even though #1 and #6 cylinders hit TDC at the same time, one is on the compression stroke and the other is on the exhaust stroke. What I do is with the plugs removed use the wire on 6 and put your thumb on the #1 hole and feel for the pressure of the compression stroke. I also use a remote start switch clipped the neg cable and the small post of the starter solenoid and bump the engine to TDC on #1 cly then check the timing mark on the harmonic balancer. Should be about +- 5 degrees or so. Then gap the points and see if the car starts, then time with a vacuum gage.

 

Joe