P24 Timing

[RatMan]

Hi Everyone. So I just got done putting the motor and trans back in the car after having to out to clean the cooling passages real good and re-seal the motor. After getting it back in I cant seem to get the timing back to where is was. Right now it is at 6 degrees BTDC with the distributor maxed out and vacuum advance disconnected. Rotating the distributor the opposite direction only advances the timing that much further. While I had the motor out i found that the timing chains where very loose and ended up replacing them with a set from Bernbaum. My understanding is that the timing chains can only go on one way and I double and triple checks my marks before putting the cover back on. So I am not sure why I cant get the timing back in. Not sure if this is relevant but I do have 12V Pertronix setup on the car. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

Ryan

Edited June 5, 2018 by RATMAN

[Ernie Baily]

Hello,

The Petronix should not make a difference if installed correctly, it just means you won't have to be setting points anymore. Check the "Tech tips" section regarding "Static Timing", also do the timing indicators match up when you bump it around to #1 compression stroke?  Also check your distribitor and see if there is a second bolt adjustment on the bottom of the distrubitor(my stock 48 Ply one had one).

 

P.S.  I'm using a 6volt pos ground Petronix on my 48 Plymouth and it really helped the starting.

 

Good luck!

Ernie Baily

[RatMan]

When I did my static timing setup everything was correct (or at least I thought it was, i will double check). Also I know that 6 degrees advance is actually not too bad for timing, I just find it odd that I cant get to TDC if I wanted to.

[Ernie Baily]

According to my Service Manual which includes up to 1954. The timing should be at TDC. But for added performance not to exceed 4 degrees before TDC. Just some added info.

 

Good Luck!

Ernie Baily 

[Adam H P15 D30]

Run the timing up till it pings under high load, back off until ping goes away, back off another 2 degrees.  That should get you super close as long as it starts well.  If is doesn't start well (too advanced) back off accordingly.

Specs from 60+ years ago should only be used as a baseline, fuel has changes A LOT since especially octane ratings and burn rates.  Set it to where the engine is happiest and who cares what the actual number is.

 

Adam

[Silverdome]

Did you time the oil pump also when you put on the new timing chain and gears?

[greg g]

You can also use a vacuum gauge to set your timing.  I am running about 6 degrees advance on my modified engine ( milled head for higher compression) that is where the vacuum gauge timing method gave me the highest reading at idle. There is a second bolt on the bottom of the dist that all a bit more rotation.  There is a slotted hole n the hold down bracket that will find another 15 to 20 degrees of movement.  

 

Today's gas has a slower flame front than the stuff the factory set specs for.  It goes whoomph the real gas went bang, so a bit of advance for an earlier light of is not a bad thing.

[knuckleharley]

4 hours ago, Silverdome said:

Did you time the oil pump also when you put on the new timing chain and gears?

Huh? Why would replacing the timing gears affect the oil pump?

 

BTW,I am sure you are right or you wouldn't have posted that,but this is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing,and want to know why.

[P15-D24]

32 minutes ago, knuckleharley said:

Huh? Why would replacing the timing gears affect the oil pump?

 

BTW,I am sure you are right or you wouldn't have posted that,but this is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing,and want to know why.

 

It doesn't unless you turned the cam while installing the gears. 

[knuckleharley]

8 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

 

It doesn't unless you turned the cam while installing the gears. 

Ok,I gotcha now. Thanks!

Edited June 5, 2018 by knuckleharley

[Silverdome]

17 hours ago, P15-D24 said:

 

It doesn't unless you turned the cam while installing the gears. 

Thanks, that's what I was alluding to.

[RatMan]

Its possible that I could have moved the cam without the chain being on when I was replacing them. But I didn't remove the oil pump so I would think that everything should be timing properly (or close enough) if if dropped the distributor back in and it was pointing at No. 1.

 

I do have a vacuum gauge. I have been going back and forth double checking vacuum and timing with the light. However, I haven't been able to get the vacuum into the green zone (17-22 in of vacuum with my gauge). My issue is that I cannot put the motor to 0 degree TDC even if I wanted to. I'm trying to get it to baseline so that I can tune it in from there. I will look into the additional adjustment on the distributor.

[P15-D24]

Pull the plugs, then manually turn it to where you think TDC is. On the damper are some degree marks you can match up to when the valves should start to open. Info is in the factory manual. If those are off you need to fix that issue first. 

[busycoupe]

Did you put the timing chain on one tooth off?

[RatMan]

I double and triple checked the timing marks before I put the cover on. But its possible I checked it incorrectly. I lined them up according to the manual. I think that if I was off a tooth I would have a lot more issues than not being able to get to 0 degree TDC. I wasn't able to get out tot the garage last night to check everything. I'll try and get out there tonight.

[YukonJack]

Not sure if this is your problem or not, but my 47 Plymouth has a bolt mounted to the bottom of the distributor that allows for additional timing movement. Just a thought.

[Don Coatney]

6 minutes ago, YukonJack said:

Not sure if this is your problem or not, but my 47 Plymouth has a bolt mounted to the bottom of the distributor that allows for additional timing movement. Just a thought.