1953 Chrysler Brakes Rebuild Thread

[Niel Hoback]

That's a classy looking car. Beautiful.

[keithb7]

A nice Sunday afternoon in the garage today on the "Tour De Brakes".

 

Today I spent about an hour and a half with a small ball been hammer and chisel. I felt like an archeologist chipping off pounds of ancient grease, blended with dirt. It is very well baked & hardened. My left front suspension was literally packed solid. I could not see any hardware and barely recognize the upper control arm. Tap, tap, tap. Wow, now it looks like something. I may need an alignment after removing all this crud. Must have knocked 5 lbs off just the left front.

 

I am reminded of the tremendous respect I have for you folks who can start with a rusty car, after sitting for 50 years in a field. Then restore it. The sell prices for those master pieces is far too low in most cases. The time, skills, and determination exhibited is amazing. Least of all the money invested. Anyone can throw money at a project. 

 

Left side brakes are now finally exposed. Typical rusty water in lower front cylinder. Some mild corrosion. I’ll see what a hone can do. Lower return spring missing on LR.

To my inexperienced eyes, this looks like an outer axle seal leaking. Do you agree? That is a little wet brake fluid on a couple of plate mounting bolts. A little spilled when 

cylinder was disassembled. Rest looks like its been there a while. Shoes were not contaminated.

 

 

Easy enough to change that seal with basic hand tools? Looking in the manual they talk about a special seal installer. To protect the seal surface from the shaft keyway. 

I am interested in hearing if anyone has done this without? Easy enough? Thanks, Keith

[Niel Hoback]

I took a file to the edges of the keyway, groove just enough to knock off the sharp corner. Wrap the axle with paper, also.

[RobertKB]

If the outer seal is leaking, so is the inner seal and both should be replaced. It does mean pulling the axle to get at the inner seal which prevents oil from the differential leaking into the rear axle bearing. Outer seal is really more of a dust seal. Kind of sucks to have to do extra work but worth the peace of mind in the end. You don't want any oil leaking onto good/new brakes shoes. I have done this on all four of my old mopars at some point.

[keithb7]

Thanks @RobertKB. I have not done any axle work such as this before. Perhaps I should start another thread about pulling the axle.I would need to gather a few more tools by the looks of it. 

[keithb7]

Here is a pic of one of my steering knuckle arms. I could not locate a torque spec. Is there a recommended value that I should torque to?  Being as nuts are secured with a cotter pin, just crank 'em to about 50 ft lbs and insert cotter pin? After some time stymied and learning how to tighten the one that also adjusts the brake cam, I think I finally got it figured out. 

 

You can see here in the pic, the spacer washers I mentioned earlier in this thread. At full steering crank, the  tie rod ends were contacting the tires, which were 1 size up from stock. Previous owner put the washers in there to prevent contact. No room left for a cotter pin. No loctite. Now I get a chill thinking about what if... I pulled and removed all spacers now that I have installed proper sized tires.

 

 

Getting close to wrapping up the brake work. 1 rear wheel left to bleed tomorrow then road test soon after. If the roads are clean.

Edited March 2, 2018 by keithb7

[keithb7]

Success...Well some anyway. Baby steps on the journey to making my Chrysler dependable, just as Walter P would have wanted.

My limited road test went very well. Brakes seem to be working quite good. I can't be sure they are set up as best as they could be without the $500 special brake tool.  They feel quite good. I need to get the car out on the open road and see if there is any pulling to left or right. No pulling detected so far while test driving around the neighbourhood. Alignment is next. I am sure the toe in needs a reset with new radials, as well as after removing those spacer washers.

 

Doing my first vintage Chrysler brake job was a rewarding experience. More work than I originally thought, but not too bad. Originally, thinking about pulling the master cylinder was a little intimidating I must admit. I learned that it is not really a difficult job. It can come out pretty quick too. If you are thinking about rebuilding your MC, give it a shot. It's not hard. I think the hardest part is getting the floor pan back in. That's not difficult either really. 

 

You can see I live up in the hills. Everywhere I go, I go down to that valley bottom you see in the distance. Very good brakes are quite important.

No more brakes sticking on! Last season, that was annoying. This snow has 27 days to melt before the Vintage Car Club Easter Parade on April 1.

Thanks to those who offer tips and help along the way. - Great forum here.

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by keithb7

[Don Coatney]

The dice need to disappear. There are better fuzzy hangers available.

 

[dodgeguy]

Why couldn't old Malcom Loghead have just swiped a star adjusting wheel, two more hold down springs, and return springs from a Bendix brake set up? LOL He was half way there with his design ! And we all wouldn't be begging for a Ammco tool and posting pictures of his ill-fated design. I gave up and decide to install a  sub frame in front and newer rear axel. I mean this post only in humor, not knocking  people who stick it out with original design. I know the purist will not like m for going modern, but my bride of 45 years will be driving this 47 d24 and I want her around for another 45!

[Plymouthy Adams]

also as a tack on to your humor....IF  Malcom could have done it back then there is little reason for someone not to do the same today....after all...you have so many models since to pick and choose from.  Remember you are only limited by your imagination and creative resources and maybe the imitative to even search it out or begin....

[matt167]

Old Mopar should have just paid licensing for Bendix. Both GM and Ford had some stake in the Bendix company at one point and pretty much 'everyone else' had gotten away from Lockheed brakes and into Bendix by 1950.. Fitting a Bendix backing plate wouldn't be the end of the world if someone really wanted easy drums, but with Scarebird and Rusty Hope, there is no point for the front.

 

My Motors manual does cover adjustment without the gauge, but it requires modifications which are listed

Edited March 4, 2018 by matt167

[keithb7]

Well, the brakes are sticking on again today. I have done some research again. I reviewed what I have done, and I am thinking about what I should do next. Besides throwing everything out and upgrading to a disc kit. LOL. I made a couple of trips around the block today. Worked the brakes good and hard. I backed into the garage and shut the car down. 30 seconds later the brakes lights come on by themselves. Grrr.. 

 

To re-cap:

All new flex lines installed. (3)

Master Cylinder rebuilt.

All front wheel cylinders rebuilt. (4)

Both rear wheel cylinders replaced with new.

Brake lines from master cylinder to junction block, and from junction block all the way back to both rear wheel cylinders all replaced.

 

When the brake lights came on, I jacked up one side of the car immediately to test for wheel spin. Both front and rear were locked up. Checked pedal free play. Yes I have some.

I left the car in the garage for about an hour and a half. Came back to find brake lights still on and wheels still locked up. Brakes still stuck on.

I then cracked the brake line at the master cylinder to relieve pressure. Brake lights immediately went out and both wheels spun freely again.

My thoughts are its not the brake light switch. Nor a siezed wheel cylinder or bad hose. Gotta be the master cylinder not returning far enough back to relieve oil pressure on the piston.

Double checked my pedal free-play. All good there, within spec.

I then removed the MC filler cover and watched for brake fluid coming up the port hole, while I pumped the pedal by hand. It does not. According to my manual, it should push oil up the relief until the primary piston cup passes the port and closes it off.  Now I am thinking, what is causing the piston not to return as far back as it should? I am starting to think I am the suspect of a master cylinder rebuild kit part problem.

 

Here's how it is assembled and showing these above symptoms. I just took the piston end apart again. 

 

 

 

A few things that have me scratching my head are: The steel odd-shaped washer (left arrow) was not used in the MC when I took the original one apart that was in my car.

The rubber washer (upper arrow) is on the the piston push rod. That part was used on my old MC, and a new one also came in the MC kit that I recently bought. Which one of these parts serves as the piston stop? I am wondering if the rubber washer is in the way and causing the piston the not seat where it should? The steel washer serves as a stop? 

 

Any thoughts on that folks? Maybe my new MC kit can be used on a couple different cars and has parts for both? Thinking about pulling the rubber washer and reassembling and testing.

Your comments are appreciated for this Rookie. Thanks.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by keithb7

[Don Coatney]

Does your master cylinder have pedal stops that are not allowing the pedal to fully retract? These pedal stops are adjustable.

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

That rubber washer does not belong on the pushrod! That rubber washer is holding the piston from returning all the way back and blocking the return port passage.

The rubber washer belongs at the very back end of the M/cyl between the residual check valve and the end threaded cap.

Modern replacement M/cyl. kits use a different style check valve that uses a separate rubber washer ( the one you have) to seal it against the end cap.

The original MoPar check valve has a built on rubber sealing washer you cannot see in this factory parts picture.

The other item that is missing is the other separate piston cup.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Dodgeb4ya

[keithb7]

@Don Coatney, I played with pedal height adjustment screws. No improvement. 

I think Dodgeb4ya is on to it.  It seems the previous repair on the MC was incorrect too. I was copying it on reassembly.

Still wanting a little more clarity here are a few pics and Q's"

 

Here is the spring and valve I have:

 

Dodgeb4ya, you are saying to put the ribber washer on the end, like this? And slide is all in.

 

9 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

 

The other item that is missing is the other separate piston cup.

 

I am not sure what you mean here. I have both cups. One, the primary cup, is on the end of the spring inside the MC, unseen in any pics I posted recently.  The other is on the piston. I believe they call that the secondary cup. Thanks.

Edited March 5, 2018 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yes.. the rubber  washer goes at the end like you show...

I  just didn't see the picture of your secondary piston cup! 

Make sure there is no debris on the washer and that the valve looks clean and the rubber in it is good... it looks old?

[keithb7]

Finally I found something that lays out what you said @Dodgeb4ya. I looked at several OEM service manuals. I looked at many MC kits on line for sale. I could not see any instructions with the flat rubber washer, in place as you described. Finally I found something. (not that I doubted you)

 

Here it is below, exactly as the man said. He knows his stuff. The rubber washer at the end, sealing the valve. Thank you very much for the tips.

Edited March 6, 2018 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Well ...

I hope what I said solves your problem or I'll look like dirt! Good luck!

[Plymouthy Adams]

the book omits the sealing washer detail but the Motors manual shows it though.....the Motors for the era is always in companion with my factory book...

[keithb7]

Got home from work this evening and hit the school of hard-knocks once again. Sucked master dry with 2 large syringes and disassembled it again. For the first time, it's together properly. Well, since a long time anyway. The previous owner had it wrong. So did I. The job gets really quick after you've  dis-assembled and re-assembled it 3-4 times in as many days. Brakes feel great tonight after another test drive.  Brakes are not sticking on. I can lock the wheels up on dry pavement without delay.  Not bad for a 4,000 lb car. Feels great! Thanks folks.

 

Now I need to have a look for these so called Motors manuals? Hmm..

Edited March 6, 2018 by keithb7

[Andydodge]

Keith.......re the Motors Auto Repair Manual........it seems they were published yearly  and in more than one edition each year..........I have a 1953 edition which is the stated to be the 16th Edition, 3rd Printing(for that year), plus a 1957 20th Edition, 1st Printing......it appears that even here in Australia they were a popular and obviously necessary addition to any mechanics library...........do you need any info or pics?.........they cover just about every US make & model for the published year and back for approximately 10-15yrs or more......the 1953 edition has 850 pages, the 1957 has 1020 pages.........lots to look at......lol.........andyd   

[Jerry Roberts]

... Now I need to have a look for these so called Motors manuals? Hmm..   ebay usually has them at a good price . 

[matt167]

They do cover some non factory ways to do things without using the tools you may or may not be able to get anymore. I have a '37-'53 manual. $50 from an antique dealer. Good to have for reference.