Freeze Plugs / Welch Plug Questions

[Jocko_51_B3B]

I'm getting ready to take my block in to be magna fluxed, cleaned out, tolerances checked, and all that.

Before taking it in, I want to remove the freeze / welch plugs. From what I can see in the photos, there are five on the left side (the round things about 1 5/8 in diameter) and one on the front face of the engine for a total of six.

Is that correct?

Are there any more on the rear face of the engine? (I can't tell right now since the engine is still on the stand.) 

By the way, I've read a lot of very helpful posts about getting and installing new freeze plugs on this website. I couldn't have begun this project without the advice I find here.

And I hope to meet some of you other posters at Clements BBQ. It'll be my first one. Coming all the way from Illinois!

Edited March 19, 2017 by Jocko_51_B3B
photos were initially too large

[Young Ed]

Yes I believe 1 more on the back and for later there is one in the head.

[DJ194950]

Yes there is at least one plug in the rear. And per you picture one in the front.

There is also one in the rear of the head.

I prefer the brass freeze plugs as many here also, sometimes not always available locally put Can be had without to much effort.

Have your machine shop remove all the freeze plugs And all threaded plugs everywhere- take some pictures all all around the block before taking it in for the work noting plug sizes and locations.

Make sure the shop puts the block in a caustic type tank and does thorough cleanup with a steam cleaner type wash after.

Reinstall all plugs with your preferred sealer/s.

Best of luck,

DJ

[The Oil Soup]

1 5/8" dorman #560-023

[jmooner3]

Yup and there is one in the head right above the temp gauge bulb. It's 1.18".

[Dodgeb4ya]

There are two plugs on the back side of the 23" block plus the oil galley screw in plug ..

25" engines are different and have more plugs on the backside.

The left rear upper water jacket 1-5/8" core plug  was brass from the factory as was the front block core plug.

This as they were not accessible if they ever corroded and leaked.

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by Dodgeb4ya

[Merle Coggins]

I think the guys covered your questions. I just wanted to add an observation... Since you are removing the core plugs it won't be an issue, but I notice that the 2 on either side of the distributor portal are cup-type plugs. This would be incorrect. They should all be the disc-type core plugs. Please don't put cup-type plugs back in those spots.

[Jocko_51_B3B]

All good advice. I'll order eight Dorman plugs today. The caustic tank soaking sounds like a good idea. Last night I took the heat riser apart (I already have new springs - hope they work) so I can get the manifolds to the shop at the same time as the block and head.

Merle, yep, I noticed that too. Those incorrect plugs were in the block when I bought the truck. Trust me, I'll throw them away. Tthe right welch plugs will be installed.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Jocko_51_B3B
to answer Merle's comment about wrong plugs

[Fowl Jeff]

Hey Jocko - regarding your heat riser, there's a great article in the technical section on this site. After reading it I decided not to bother with mine, instead I plan to remove it.

[Mike36]

On March 19, 2017 at 7:33 PM, The Oil Soup said:

1 5/8" dorman #560-023

Oil soup, thanks for the Dorman part number, I have had trouble finding that.

[Jocko_51_B3B]

Fowl Jeff,

I saw the heat riser article. Not sure what happens if I leave it off. I'm sure there's another thread that answers that question. Anyway, when I get a few minutes I'm going to slowly add hot water to the replacement spring and the original spring at the same time just to see if they react to temperature in the same way.

[jmooner3]

Hey all, had done all the freeze plugs on the block a while back when I freshened up this engine. But it wasn't til I moved this engine from my 50 parts truck to my 49 B1B that I had to pull the heat bulb outta the head. As y'all know sometimes you have to pop the welch plug above it an work it out from the inside as these suckers are fragile. I struggled to find a replacement plug in local shops here in Vermont. The 1-3/16 didn't show up anywhere in the Dodge listings the only one I found was outta stock... Just need to know what you're looking for!  Turns out a 65 jeep uses this very size. So for very little money I bought a kit of 10.  If any of our members needs a plug shoot me a note I'll send one to ya. Part number for the kit was 550-016.

Cheers!

[Jocko_51_B3B]

Well, I managed to remove all the welch / freeze plugs yesterday by drilling a hole, then using a screw and a Wonder Bar.

But look at the goop I found behind the welch plugs! What that goop is I have no idea! It's soft and looks like, well...

I cleaned the goop out as best I could (nowhere good enough I'm certain). A lot more must be hiding in there.

Now I find that the water jacket surfaces look like they're coated with a layer of rust / scale deposits. No surprise there I guess.

Will a caustic tank clean out the soft goop and take off the rust / mineral scale? Is it really possible to get down to bare metal inside the water jackets using the right cleaning method? I hear about caustic tanks, acid tanks, ultrasonic tanks, high temp baking, shot blasting, and who knows what else.

 

[DJ194950]

I'm just a rust inspector--

Man that's Bad! Lunch?

Caustic dip for about two days and a steam clean- possibly repeat- or call the rust Doctor?

[MBF]

Bought a parts car for my old Blazer in '88.  It had a great running 350 that was in a Monte that had been in FL most of its life.   Last owner apparently didn't  believe in antifreeze  as all of the freezeout plugs were paper thin due to rust.   Replaced them all, put the engine in the Blazer and been using as a plow vehicle for 28+ yrs.   Still runs excellent, and never had an issue w overheating  or crud in the radiator after the flushing I gave it before replacing the plugs. 

 

[newwife]

[bergy]

Hello jocko

  I also live in minooka.also have 53b3 truck. Very interested in your progress for future reference to me. Private message me if you like thanks 

   Bergy

[Jocko_51_B3B]

jmooner3 and  Oil Soup,

Thanks for the part numbers. I picked them up at O'Reilly's. Perfect fits. For some reason the smaller welch plug (for the head) came in steel instead of brass. No big deal.

 

 

[jmooner3]

Happy to help! I've had so many folks help me on this forum, I'm happy to pay it forward. When I pulled the freeze plugs outta mine I had sludge too. I did not dip the engine, I just gave it an in frame clean up - I wheeled the truck out into the yard, pulled the water pump and distribution tube, pulled the head and shoved my pressure washer in every orifice of that poor engine. There was a ton of junk pouring out. I'm certain that I did not get it anywhere near as clean as the caustic clean you are talking about but the pile of slime after I was done leads me to believe it's a hek of a lot better flowing than before I pulled the freeze plugs. I put a new water distribution tube in as mine was nearly rusted away. I think I got it from VPW.  If anyone is thinking of doing the pressure washer dance - it/s not for the faint of heart and not a good thing to do inside your garage - there was stuff flying everywhere! Good luck.

[Jocko_51_B3B]

jmooner3,

Thanks, It's good to know that my engine isn't unique in terms of gunked-up cooling passages. I just wonder what the gunk is composed of and what caused it to form over the years. Not replacing the coolant frequently enough I suppose had something to do with it. The pile of gunk in the photo all came out of the rear welch plug. I dug it out with my fingers and a screwdriver. Of the five plugs on the side of the engine, much smaller amounts came out of the bottom two holes. The top three holes were almost gunk-free. So, at least for my engine, it looks like gunk tends to build up more in the bottom of the engine and much more heavily in the passages behind the #6 cylinder wall in the extreme rear of the engine. Whether or not the #6 cylinder ran hotter than the others I have no idea. I'm just glad I got the bad stuff out.

 

[jmooner3]

 

Mine looked like mud and what looked like a rusted washer came out too. Makes sense that the sediment lands low and back. It's gotta be an improvement in flow and now question #6 was hotter if it was not getting the same flow. Good luck with it! keep us posted on progress...

[Jocko_51_B3B]

Here's the part number for the 1 3/8 plug that covers the camshaft bearing: 550-019

Link to O'Reilly's: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/DAG0/550019/N0290.oap?ck=Search_expansion!s!freeze+plug_1437627_4838&keyword=expansion!s!freeze+plug

[Reg Evans]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 0:31 PM, Jocko_51_B3B said:

Well, I managed to remove all the welch / freeze plugs yesterday by drilling a hole, then using a screw and a Wonder Bar.

But look at the goop I found behind the welch plugs! What that goop is I have no idea! It's soft and looks like, well...

I cleaned the goop out as best I could (nowhere good enough I'm certain). A lot more must be hiding in there.

Now I find that the water jacket surfaces look like they're coated with a layer of rust / scale deposits. No surprise there I guess.

Will a caustic tank clean out the soft goop and take off the rust / mineral scale? Is it really possible to get down to bare metal inside the water jackets using the right cleaning method? I hear about caustic tanks, acid tanks, ultrasonic tanks, high temp baking, shot blasting, and who knows what else.

 

What size is the small freeze plug above the sending unit on the head ? 

[Don Coatney]

[Reg Evans]

Thanks Don !  I should have specified on a 230, not a 251.  I found my answer ....the 23" engines use a 1 3/16" plug.