55 Fargo Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 (edited) Part 2 Hey all, had a suspicious package arrive today at the local Canada Post Office inside the General Store. Much to my thrill, a AoK Asche Dual Intake/exhaust, BBI carbs, and a A833 adpater plate was in the box. Now the big plan for phase 1, pull stock manifolds, clean up engine paint and make all nice and purdy. The new duals will be installed, with George Asche carbs and linkage, these are the large cfm truck carbs too. Hope to get a lot more punch out this old 238 engine, gonna be kool. The A 833 trans, have 1 in the wings, not sure how well it will be with my current 3.23 gears, but do think it should be just fine. I am not sure if I will be pulling the head, and having it shaved, but that is a possibility. The final plan at some future point is the ultimate 265 hot cam, shaved head, will definitely push this little old Fargo along real nicely.... Edited May 15, 2016 by Fargos-Go-Far 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargone Posted May 13, 2016 Report Share Posted May 13, 2016 I'm currently looking into fuel injection as an option on my flat head, my mechanic friend thinks it's quite feasible to use one of the self contained smaller 2 barrel throttle body units. I'm not so sure but maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Davey Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Memory isn't what it used to be, but I think an editor for Hemmings Motor News adapted a single barrel TBI from a 258 c.i. Jeep straight 6 onto something old (can't remember what). Might be an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I'm currently looking into fuel injection as an option on my flat head, my mechanic friend thinks it's quite feasible to use one of the self contained smaller 2 barrel throttle body units. I'm not so sure but maybe. It is easily done and has been done. Unlike in a car where the key is to try and inject fuel directly into all the cylinders, its is the delivery system that is the challenge on a flathead. Remember your stock intake feeds 3 intake ports and each of those ports feed 2 cylinders. Since a single carb sees the middle port and therefore the middle two cylinders receiving more fuel than the front and back cylinder, putting a throttle body fuel injection doesn't address the key issue. Putting two carbs equally splitting the distance between intake ports is a way way better improvement, just as 1 carb on each of the intake ports is a further improvement. You also have a huge range of cfm ranges in stock carter ball and ball carbs. Now if you jet injectors into each of the individual cylinders then your on to something, but there are tons of other improvements you can make that are a lot easier and more cost effective. On the throttle body from the Jeep mentioned, its easy to do but given it was designed for an engine with 6 equal length intake ports each feeding 1 cylinder it fails to address the challenge of the flathead intake port designs. William was correct, that was indeed what was used. I may even have a couple of the adapter plates I can donate to someone's project, if someone wants to be able to say their flathead is fuel injected.. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 Here are a couple old posts from the 39-47 truck guys. One guy did just what you are asking. "i machined the chevy 4.3 liter distributor down and now it fits the fargo/ dodge 251 cube engine. next week i will make the adaptor for the intake manifold to accept the two barrel throttle body. I chose the 4.3 chevy 4.3 liter, because it so close in size to the 251." "It is now been completed and is flawless. the pictures of the distributor mods were posted a month or so ago on the other web site.I finished up the adaptor to mate the 2 barrel throttle body to the single barrel existing manifold, made up a return fuel line and installed the new fuel pump, welded in a threaded bung in the exhaust pipe for the 02 sensor, added a knock sensor,hooked up the harness. one crank of the starter and she fired right up. Ran rich for a minute or two until the oxygen sensor came on line and then the computer adjusted the fuel automaticaly. Incredible results. absolutely no richness, no leanness, incredible throttle resonse with no stumbling from a cold start. You turn the key and you are driving instantly as if it was a new truck you just picked up from the dealer." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I think we have strayed well away from Fred's thread on his build. Id strongly suggest the using chevy throttle body fuel injection be moved to its own thread. I really don't want to get into it, but had the guy rebuilt his 50 year old carb he likely would have seen similar results. Putting on a single throttle body injection is not the most effective way to improve a flathead mopar and clearly the is a knowledge gap on the fundamental design of the engine and its fuel delivery system. Ill leave now shaking my head. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I think we have strayed well away from Fred's thread on his build. Id strongly suggest the using chevy throttle body fuel injection be moved to its own thread. I really don't want to get into it, but had the guy rebuilt his 50 year old carb he likely would have seen similar results. Putting on a single throttle body injection is not the most effective way to improve a flathead mopar and clearly the is a knowledge gap on the fundamental design of the engine and its fuel delivery system. Ill leave now shaking my head. If that were true we'd still be driving carb vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timkingsbury Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 If that were true we'd still be driving carb vehicles lol.. I think you missed the memo my young friend.. the modern engines don't have 3 intake ports feeding 6 cylinders .. Again, putting a single source of fuel whether a carb or fuel injection, entering one point in a stock intake is not a solution to either increased performance of fuel mileage. Period. Just like putting a carb on an engine which has injectors going into each cylinder under pressure is the wrong answer, a throttle body fuel injection unit mounted on a stock intake is the wrong answer. It just is. Now to each their own.. But again, all that being said, this is Fred's thread on his build, not the putting fuel injection on a flathead thread. So its time to cease and so I will. If you want to continue the discussion on a new thread, cool.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted May 14, 2016 Report Share Posted May 14, 2016 I'm currently looking into fuel injection as an option on my flat head, my mechanic friend thinks it's quite feasible to use one of the self contained smaller 2 barrel throttle body units. I'm not so sure but maybe. Found the old website from the guy who did it to his truck. Doesn't look like he ever finished the site though. http://fargopickup.com/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Hi all, clearly when I was away for a few days, people seemed to decide to take my personal build in another direction and I am sure it wasn't to start a fight, but please if you want to talk fuel injection or putting custom parts on your truck and how good they are, fill your boots.. somewhere else.. Please start your own thread as this is absolutely not the spot for that. Here is an update, have not installed the new dual intake/exhaust yet. I have gaskets ordered, and need fuel line/hose, fittings, and of course more exhaust work. The good news is, the stock manifolds stud nuts on my engine, turn out easily. I do have 2 that the studs are backing out. 2 years ago I hired out a local small shop to pull the old manifolds, knowing a stud might break, 3 broke, not fun or cheap, but of course this guy took a short cut, and looks like he installed the backed out studs, without getting the nuts off first. The good news is he was very familiar with Chrysler flathead 6s and knew the importance of the brass spacers and special nuts. I do plan to start a blog on this entire process, will try and gather some before and after performance data if possible. So that is it for today, will add ore as the process goes forward. Anyone else who has done this same upgrades please fell free to participate. I probably should have titles this thread, 55 Fargo goes dual intake/exhaust, so that my friends is the theme of this thread.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) Well had some time to look at my fuel block, decided I may couple it together with an old carter fuel glass bowl filter, steel line from pump to filter, gas hose to carbs from fuel block...a few pics of what I am trying to do. I am still trying to decide whether to clean up and paint the engine same time, of course the fan, oil filter and wireloom will need paint too. It will be Chrysler silver of course. Edited May 15, 2016 by Fargos-Go-Far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiejimbob Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 You can't beat nice new shiny parts! I will be interested to see what kind of performance and feel you get from the engine plus we all like pics of new parts on an engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Some pics underhood, and new intake/exhaust set on the bench, waiting to get installed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Looks good, Fred. Glad you went this way and not the V8! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 Looks good, Fred. Glad you went this way and not the V8! me too, in the long run do not know what is less money, but I love these engines Rob. I really want to see what a hi-perf 265 would be like someday. I do realize, mine won't be that, but a little more power, nice sound and oohs and aahs when others see my mill. I have recently met another Mopar lover, he has a 32 Chrysler, lives near by, it has a 250 engine, a more modern trans and rearend. This gent has put on 150000 miles since 1989, has been all over North America, in the league of Chris Bamford, maybe more trips. He has only blown 1 head gasket on long road trips in all this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiejimbob Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I've had several Chevy V8's and inline 6's but absolutely love my flat 6 and the way it sounds. Way more period like than any V8. I think it's a great thing to be doing. A little modern but period looking tech with the added bonus of a bit more poke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 I've had several Chevy V8's and inline 6's but absolutely love my flat 6 and the way it sounds. Way more period like than any V8. I think it's a great thing to be doing. A little modern but period looking tech with the added bonus of a bit more poke! Yes have to concur, Ford Flathead V8s are so revered but do not hold a candle to the engineering of a Chrysler flathead 6, and Stovebolt Chevys while cool in their own right IMHO do not either have owned a few. I do look forward to seeing a video of your truck running/driving.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-T-53 Posted May 17, 2016 Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 Yes have to concur, Ford Flathead V8s are so revered but do not hold a candle to the engineering of a Chrysler flathead 6, and Stovebolt Chevys while cool in their own right IMHO do not either have owned a few. I do look forward to seeing a video of your truck running/driving.... I helped my machinist friend rebuild a flathead V-8 Ford in his shop about a year ago. My first time working on one of them. I was surprised by the "very light" design of the internals...mainly the bottom end. Only three mains, for pete's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 17, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2016 I helped my machinist friend rebuild a flathead V-8 Ford in his shop about a year ago. My first time working on one of them. I was surprised by the "very light" design of the internals...mainly the bottom end. Only three mains, for pete's sake! Certainly not built like there later 300 inline 6 with 6 mains.. While certainly a huge "cult" following, truly believe we have the best of the big 3 engines of the time, to soldier on in a modern world.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) UPDATE: This morning drained antifreeze, as at least 1 stud was backing out, ended up with 4 backing out, all others backed off easy. I did hire out 2 years ago when I broke 3 manifold studs removing a cracked manifold set, so not bad now to remove. The local guy that did the job installed my manifold set, and did not bother to unseize the special stud nuts etc, so will do so now. Some pics.. Edited May 19, 2016 by Fargos-Go-Far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 A little heat and thread clean up works wonders on the special acorn shaded nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Gaskets on and a test fit, all looks good so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamiejimbob Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 nice steady progress, looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent B3B Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Fred I probably missed it..... why the plate cover in the center of the new intake? was your old intake reworked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted May 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Fred I probably missed it..... why the plate cover in the center of the new intake? was your old intake reworked? Because it is made from a stock intake, so OEM hole needs to be capped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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