OD into C1B?

[59bisquik]

I have looked through many pages and blogs but have not found the answer. I have a trans with the R10? overdrive from a 54 Plymouth. Besides the cables and wiring etc, what does it take to put it in the truck? Bell housing, flywheel etc or will it bolt in place of my original?

Btw... It is a column shift and I wish to keep it that way. No T5 swaps for me, I want to keep it as period correct as I can.

Thanks in advance.

[Young Ed]

When I did this comparison with my 46 truck bellhousing it was a no go. The bell housing hole for the input shaft retainer was about an inch too big.

[pflaming]

The truck bell housing is wider and is mounted to the frame rails, that gives more torque / anti twist support when pulling or hauling a load. The car transmission mounts to a cross member thus in my opinion is not as solid.

Question, could a car cross member be placed into a truck frame and then use a car engine and OD tyranny? I think so and possibly without much difficulty.

[Young Ed]

The truck bell housing is wider and is mounted to the frame rails, that gives more torque / anti twist support when pulling or hauling a load. The car transmission mounts to a cross member thus in my opinion is not as solid.

Question, could a car cross member be placed into a truck frame and then use a car engine and OD tyranny? I think so and possibly without much difficulty.

Yes but then you lose the bellhousing mounted brake master cylinder and pedals.

[pflaming]

Ed, yes you do, but the car tyranny should come with it's pedals and mount, I think.

[59bisquik]

So the car has the pedals mounted to the frame and the truck to the bell housing. Why can't the truck bell housing be used? What is different about it besides the mounts?

[Merle Coggins]

I believe Ed eluded to that earlier. The pilot hole is too large in the truck bell. The truck transmissions were heavier duty than the ones in the cars. It's also quite possible that the mounting holes are different.

Could you machine a spacer ring and re-drill / tap the truck bell to work with the car Trans? Possibly... So far nobody here has tried it, that I know of. If you go do it please document it here for us. This comes up from time to time.

[59bisquik]

Hmmmm... looks like I have my work cut out for me.

 

As a side note, until I get my hands on the manual, which is in the truck. What is the curb weight for this? Trying to figure what trailer to take and figure fuel mileage to pick up the ol' Dodge.

[59bisquik]

So I am getting my truck ready to tow home and thought I would check out the tranny and such.

I don't see pedals or a master cylinder attached to the bell housing. Or see the bell housing attaching to the frame. I see it sitting on a crossmember and the master cylinder bolted to the frame. So maybe this bell housing will work with my Plymouth OD tranny? Am I misunderstanding something?

[pflaming]

The bell housing (gray/white in color) looks like my car housing, except it is clean, mine is fresh out of the car. Is it mounted on the cross member? A stock b series truck does not have a cross member for the mount. Interesting setup.

Edited September 6, 2015 by pflaming

[59bisquik]

It mounts with two rubber mounts right to the crossmember.

It's a 55 C1B if that makes a difference.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 59bisquik

[pflaming]

It looks to me that someone did as I mentioned in an above post. If so, then then all you need is an overdrive tyranny and "bobs your uncle"!

[Jeff Balazs]

Maybe all you need to do is a rear axle swap if you what you want to raise the speed at a given rpm. I am not sure what the advantage of adding an OD would be if you could make the same gain with a higher final ratio? Seems to me it would probably be a lot of work and you would still be married to the old axle and drums. Just something to think about.

 

Jeff

[59bisquik]

It just so happens that I also have a freshly rebuilt 3.73 diff from that same Plymouth. So it's R10 OD and 3.73.

I want to be able to maintain 65 on the highway so I can go to car shows and such.

Edited September 6, 2015 by 59bisquik

[pflaming]

I have a 218 in my truck in front of a 3:73 axle and I easily travel with the semis and can pass them with ease. Put a tach on your engine and find out at what rpms you are running. You may just be babying that truck.

[Jeff Balazs]

It just so happens that I also have a freshly rebuilt 3.73 diff from that same Plymouth. So it's R10 OD and 3.73.

I want to be able to maintain 65 on the highway so I can go to car shows and such.

I do understand. Several fellows have 3.73 rears and can do 65 no problem. The real question is how tall you can go before you begin to exceed the power to weight ratio needed to really use an OD? I have a 3.55 rear axle and a 54 truck 230. My testing so far would seem to indicate that I would need a substantial boost in power to make use of gearing that was any higher than this.

 

Remember that the trucks are heavier and less aerodynamic than their auto counterpoints. My guess is that combination would probably be kind of a dog in one of these trucks without boosting the compression and fitting a performance camshaft etc.

You might want to do the axle swap first and drive it some to see what it is really like.

 

Jeff

[59bisquik]

Sounds like great advice! I will have to do that and then make a decision. Thanks.

[SmokeyC3]

I put an overdrive in my 56C3 it was pretty much a bolt in. Then hook up a cable and make up the wiring. Only major issue I had was a difference in the rear yoke. The original truck yoke bolt pattern wouldn't fit the tranny and I couldn't use the original tranny one for some reason. If I remember right, I had to drill the parking brake hub to make it work. Also my input shaft lengths were different , had to swap those but the truck one bolted right in place. And of course the driveshaft needs to be shortened and balanced.  I check in here once in awhile so if you need pictures or more info give me a shout. The bell housings were apparently changed with the change from B to C series adding to some confusion here. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Smokey;

What rear axle ratio do you have in your truck? How does your truck perform with the OD?

I know a lot of folks here would like to hear more particulars.

 

Jeff

[SmokeyC3]

My truck was all apart when I purchased it. The previous owner planning to do a rear end swap as part of the rebuild, so I took the advice of others and put a Ford 9 inch in it 3.50 ratio. That worked pretty well cruising at 50-55 mph comfortably. The overdrive I just happened to find on C-list a couple hours away so I went for it. The OD with 3.50 's was a bit of a dog dying out at the slightest hill. Also with the 3.50's I felt first and reverse were a bit to high geared requiring excessive clutch slippage. So I swapped out the 3.50's for a set of something around 4.20's . Now it cruises pretty effortlessly at 60-65. Drop it out of OD and hammer down it pulls most any hill at 50-55 mph. Can pretty much keep up with the flow of traffic although in the slow lane. Above 65 handling starts to become an issue. First and reverse are more to my liking. I'm thinking 3.90's might be about perfect. Actually for a future project I'm thinking I might like to put the original rear back in.

[pflaming]

Smoky, ". . . Dying out at the least hill. . . " to my recollection that's the nature / reason for on OD, the OD is for open driving so stepping down is the nature of the beast. Now high on low and reverse is another matter. With a std three I can and do start in 2nd with little problem so that may be a personal driving habit item.

I'm thinking your 56 C3 is a 230, is that correct?

As stated earlier, I can criuse at 60/65 with my 218 - 3:73 and pull the hill from 500' to 6000' in a 30 mile climb and never shift to 2nd gear. So I'm thinking a 230 with OD on low/high would do the same. So I'm still researching. I have an extra 56 230 with OD tyranny to use if I choose.

This thread is helpful to me.

Edited November 15, 2015 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

2.73 is I believe a typo and PP is meaning 3.73