Opinions Wanted: To Fix or Not to Fix

[JerseyHarold]

My son's car is a 2006 Dodge Stratus with the not-well-liked 2.7 V6.  The car has 170,000 miles and is going strong except for a minor drip out of the water pump.  It's a spot about the size of a quarter that appears overnight.   On one hand, there isn't any water in the oil (happens at advanced stage) and I even found a write-up from Gates  (in the Rock Auto listing for replacement water pumps) stating that some seepage is normal.   The car runs fine (I'm using it 40+/- miles every day while he's away this summer with no appreciable coolant loss) and he needs to take it back to school in a few weeks.   The down side is that the water pump is miserable (=$$$) to replace.   So the question is:  Fix, use as-is and watch coolant level, or bail out.  Any thoughts appreciated.  Thanks.

 

Harold

[Niel Hoback]

Your second option makes the most sense to me. If it starts to leak a lot, I would probably sell it. Of course, spending your money is easy for me.

[plymouthcranbrook]

From what I have seen about the 2.7 I wouldn't have one as a gift. Still, if I wasn't going to go far from home with it and had a ready back-up I might just drive it until it dropped. The value of the car by now must not be very high.  If your son is going to take it far away to school and might face a large repair bill in the middle of winter should it fail, then I might have another opinion.

[Plymouthy Adams]

all I have read and understand of the 2.7 on debut was equipped with too  small oil returns in the upper cylinder resulting in oil starvation on the bottom end...now this is not as drastic as it originally sounds...the car if driven at speed limit did not really suffer...but at x rpm above that of normal cruise and the starvation was greatly increased....higher the rpm..the less oil available...this was fixed in later production but I do not recall how many early engines were affected. If you get an overhauled engine or have one overhauled do check these returns..it is my understanding that they can be enlarged without problem.  Second big problem was the very way the dealerships (not sure of factory trickled down replies) that you the customer was not changing the oil properly and resulting problem was all due to poor maintenance by owner and passed the entire buck down to you...second of the very worse of Chrysler adoption of GM tactics in play...BUT regardless of any midyear change, the word on the street was not good..the engine got a bad rap...of the earlier V6 in FWD the 3.3/3.8 along with the LHS platform (not Pacifica based, is transverse and different induction) 3.5 are rock solid power plants..

 

the 3.6 Pentastar is here after many years in development...and it is quite the package...lot of HP in a 220 cube engine...283 ponies in everyday application...power and economy..

[Ulu]

My daughter had a Dodge with the 2.7 liter door stop.

 

I begged her to sell it . . . and she sold it to my other daughter! 

 

WTH is wrong with these kids?

 

The dam thing had oil starvation and galled the cam & bearings at 90k miles.

 

Off to the junkyard with that thing!

[JerseyHarold]

My daughter had a Dodge with the 2.7 liter door stop.

 

I begged her to sell it . . . and she sold it to my other daughter! 

 

WTH is wrong with these kids?

 

The dam thing had oil starvation and galled the cam & bearings at 90k miles.

 

Off to the junkyard with that thing!

I heard there was a design change some time in the early 2000's that made the later engines somewhat better.  Our Stratus was a former State vehicle and I've seen lots of them get auctioned with over 200,000 miles.  I doubt that government agencies would dump a lot of money into repairing an older car, so I assume the cars stayed healthy all that time.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I heard there was a design change some time in the early 2000's that made the later engines somewhat better.  Our Stratus was a former State vehicle and I've seen lots of them get auctioned with over 200,000 miles.  I doubt that government agencies would dump a lot of money into repairing an older car, so I assume the cars stayed healthy all that time.

I donno, seeing what the Government wastes money on on a daily basis I would not be the least bit surprised to see a car with 200,000 miles get a new engine and then be auctioned off for almost nothing the next month.

Edited July 24, 2015 by plymouthcranbrook

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have been to many a government auctions..trust me, there is nothing there on the average that is a deal in any manner....I do not know who these bidders are or what they doing with the stuff..but for the price they paying..they can have it...we sent nothing to DRMO that was anywhere near worth trying to save...big ticket items are a rip off...the smaller lot boxes of small parts are usually new stuff but a crap shoot to what it is and if or if not marketable..

[JerseyHarold]

From what I've seen (and I've been going to surplus vehicle auctions since high school in the seventies) you can still get an OK deal if you're persistent.  One of my best deals was a red '68 Pontiac Catalina convertible that was a DEA seizure...I drove it home for $41.50!

[Dan Hiebert]

Although I find the rabbit holes interesting - rudder steer back to the topic - We had a Dodge Caravan with a small coolant leak at 105K, but I don't recall the engine size as that was back in the '90's.  170K miles is a drop in the bucket nowadays.  If the car is serving you well and doesn't otherwise have any issues, I'd find out just what is leaking.  Your description is a bit vague, as it could just be the gasket (as with our Caravan), which although a bit of a PIA to replace, is inexpensive.  But if its leaking from the shaft - then the whole water pump would need to be replaced.  If it hasn't had the traditional 2.7 failure, then its either a later model with the oil return modifications, well maintained, reasonably driven, or all of the above.

[JerseyHarold]

The water pump in the 2.7 is mounted inside the timing cover on the front of the engine and driven by the timing chain.  It is a major disassembly job to get to it.  The water pump  has an external weep hole and that's where I believe the drip is coming from.  I tried looking under there and everything is covered by plastic sheathing.  The thermostat housing and a coolant hose or two are located in the general vicinity of the weep hole so there is a slight chance it's one of them; I just can't get under there.  When the water pump really begins to fail, you get coolant mixing with the engine oil in the crankcase, the engine sludges up internally and it's done.   I've got a friend from the dealership I worked at in the 1990's who does most of my repair work and he says he won't touch it, which is kind of scary because he's done some amazing repairs for me in the past.

 

My biggest concern is that the water pump (assuming that's what's leaking) goes into major fail mode on my son at school ( in Rochester, 400 miles from here).

[wayfarer]

Interesting subject. Years ago my daughter drove a 2002 Stratus with the 2.2 and 5 spd. She sold it when the odo hit 185K and it was still going strong.

 

OK, so what is the quoted cost to replace the pump? And what is the value to you to have a reliable vehicle for the kid?

Give the street/trade-in value of the car as is, do you have the resources to replace it with something else that may, or may-not, have its own issue hiding below the radar?

If the car is in otherwise good to very good condition and has no other issues then the repair may be the best solution. At least you know what you have.....but as was said, it is easy to spend someone else's money.

 

Troll through craigslist and see what your money will buy these days.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I admit that  I have never worked a 2.7   but the 3.5 in my Eagle Vision TSI's and the Concorde LX..piece of cake, water pump also off the timing belt....in and out with an new pump and timing belt on the twin cams in short order..you don't even have to pull the radiator to do the job..if you knew how easy they were you would pay them for the privilege to work on one....ok..that may be a bit extreme but it so simple an engine to work on..

[JerseyHarold]

If I recall correctly, the engines in the Vision and Concorde are situated front-to-back like a rear-wheel drive car.  The Stratus engine is crammed in sideways like most front wheel drive cars.   I found a Youtube video of someone changing the water pump in one of these cars...it took so long it was a three-part series.  So much stuff had to be taken apart that I nearly winced.

 

The right answer may be to fix the car properly.  It drives well, the AC blows cold, and it's really fun to drive.  I've been using it all summer while our son is at his job internship in Washington State.  I've been watching the auctions and nothing wonderful has appeared.  I'll ask (or beg) my friend to put it on his lift, get the plastic off the bottom, and take a good look at what exactly is going on.  Maybe I'll be lucky and it's something simple.

[Ulu]

I'm amazed you have 170,000 on this engine. I'd patch it up and sell it fast.

 

It made OK power for its size, but they've never been well regarded or considered durable.

[JerseyHarold]

UPDATE:  I had my mechanic friend put the car on his lift and the water pump is not leaking.  I was convinced that there was a coolant leak and the drip was picking-up greasy dirt from the engine which was why there were spots on my driveway that wouldn't evaporate. It's a minor oil leak that he says is a 'live with it' issue, especially since any repair is ridiculously complicated on this engine.  Thanks to everyone for their ideas and advice.

 

Harold

[Ulu]

Looks like you lucked out. I sure wish I had.

 

My daughter called me one day to say her battery was dead.

 

It was not.

 

The cam was just so galled the starter would barely turn the engine.