Hot Starting Issues

[Desotodav]

I'm sure that many of us have been in that position one way or another Jeff. Life changes only when you act on what you learn. Here's hoping that the changes you make now solve this ongoing issue.

[Jeff Balazs]

Thanks Guy's for not beating me up........even if I really deserve it.    I still can't make any sense of how this happened?

Makes me wonder what else I have goofed up.

 

I am glad I have not put it on the road yet. Other than a few short test drives most of the time on the engine has been at idle or at very slow speeds. Hopefully I haven't done any serious damage. I will change the oil right away in case it has been diluted.

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

When I screw up my wife threatens to beat me up. When I tell her I might like it she backs down

[HanksB3B]

That's sort of and at least as good news as when Fernando told me to check the condenserand I discovered I had routed the wire in the way of the rotor and my truck started running intermittently on 4 or 5 cylinders on the way up from the beach with two fat chicks in my truck!

 

Hank   

[DJ194950]

That's sort of and at least as good news as when Fernando told me to check the condenserand I discovered I had routed the wire in the way of the rotor and my truck started running intermittently on 4 or 5 cylinders on the way up from the beach with two fat chicks in my truck!

 

Hank   

 

Pictures ??

 

Doug

[Don Coatney]

Pictures ??

 

Doug

Pictures of what? The beach, or the two fat chicks?

[HanksB3B]

Pictures of what? The beach, or the two fat chicks?

Very funny..

 

Hank.      

[Jeff Balazs]

Jeez......I figured Hank was going to post some old Looney Tunes character saying "What a Maroon"

 

Jeff

[Jeff Balazs]

Ok so I have re-adjusted the carb and added a fuel pressure regulator. Regulator set @ 3.5#. Changed the oil. Need to re-check the timing and set the dwell and begin testing all over again.

Here are a few photos of the regulator set up and a revision to the fresh air system. Still need need to add a cable actuated blast gate to the Y fitting.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

That all looks very good, especially that added ductwork to allow air to move over the carb and intake area. On real hot days, once the truck is stopped and engine  and underhood areas heat up, that is going to be your "acid test".......good luck, hope this resolves your issues, with your added items, as well as lowering the carb float.

The main culprit is that nasty underhood temps, when engine is shut off, hood closed parked in the sun, it's like the gas BBQ with the lid down on a hot day, just gets a lot hotter....

[jeffsunzeri]

What part number is the air filter element you used?

[Jeff Balazs]

Not sure of K & N # ....maybe A067A12? I think it was made for the big 6 Supra's

Size is 5 1/2" tall x 6 3/4" OD & 4 1/4" ID. Nice snug fit in air bath housing.

 

Jeff

[48Dodger]

Well........they say when you get older it get's easier to admit your own shortcomings. So here goes.....

 

Jeff

Got my respect Jeff...you posted a mistake ya made and were willing to take the heat! 

 

Pictures of what? The beach, or the two fat chicks?

LOL...

 

Jeez......I figured Hank was going to post some old Looney Tunes character saying "What a Maroon"

 

Jeff

Hanks files are vast....he's probablly still looking for the right one!

 

48D

[Jeff Balazs]

Got my respect Jeff...you posted a mistake ya made and were willing to take the heat! 

 

LOL...

 

Hanks files are vast....he's probablly still looking for the right one!

 

48D

Tim;

I thought for certain Hank would have photo zinged me by now? Must be getting soft in his old age. I am disappointed.

Still baffled by how I managed to be so far off..... these carbs are not that difficult.

 

Jeff

[48Dodger]

Well you know....it was said somewhere that most accidents happen 2 miles from home. Why? Because you are around familar territory and stop paying attention to the details. Maybe that's what happened? You had been there before and just assumed you had taken care of it.

 

Somewhat related, almost pointless story:

 

The worst thing that ever happened to me concerning carbs, was with my 72 Charger Street Stock (circle track). I would tear down the 4412 Holley (500 cfm 2bbl) at least a few times a week, trying to find the right jetting for the race. I decided to leave the power valve in instead of blocking it off. I pulled about 12hg of vacum and installed a 5.5hg power valve...no biggy...right? Wrong. lol I had let the gasket slip out of position and didn't find the problem til after I had swapped several jets. The gasket was weeping raw gas to the manifold and flooding the mixture. It wasn't until it was actually making puddles that I figured it out. I swapped in a plug and never worried about it again. lol.

 

48D

Edited March 26, 2014 by 48dodger

[Jeff Balazs]

Tim;

Yes we all make mistakes. If we are lucky we learn from them. I'd bet you were a little more careful after that.

 

When our mistakes or errors in judgement happen and they are fuel related I always remember one incident that happened to me years ago.

 

For years I operated small coastal fishing boats. On one trip I noticed gas fumes before we set out.....but I thought it was just the tank venting as it was the weather was very warm. Got 7 or 8 miles out of the harbor when we ran into a big school pf fish. We stopped and fished it for about an hour......smelling gas from time to time. As we were getting ready to move I fired up the engine and turned on the bilge pump. Holy crap....raw gas. Very scary miles from shore. My fishing buddy and I just about crapped...... and without saying a word we both put our cigarettes out. I will tell you the hand of God was with us that day. We ran back to port......praying the whole time and pulled the boat out of the water. We collected almost 40 gallons of fuel out of that bilge. The fuel tank had ruptured. One stray spark and I wouldn't be here to tell the story.

 

Jeff

[48Dodger]

I was gonna hit the "like" button...but considering the story, I'll request we get "DANG!" button....lol 

 

48D

[Jeff Balazs]

Tim;

Ya......there is nothing quite like sitting on a grenade for an hour with the pin pulled to put some perspective on things.

Had a few experiences like that. I have to figure that God has saved me to do something for him. I just hope I recognize the task when the time comes.

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

Jeff,

 

Maybe the "Pilothouse Job" as in the Old Testament ?

 

Hank 

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

Wow! I had no idea they had old Dodge trucks back then. Does this mean I will be smitten while trying to start one with a hand crank?

Figures that it is from the old testament ...... as many times as I have had help dodging the bullet...... when my payback time finally comes it just has to be a duesy.

 

Jeff

[The Oil Soup]

Ok so I have re-adjusted the carb and added a fuel pressure regulator. Regulator set @ 3.5#. Changed the oil. Need to re-check the timing and set the dwell and begin testing all over again.

Here are a few photos of the regulator set up and a revision to the fresh air system. Still need need to add a cable actuated blast gate to the Y fitting.

Jeff

. Re: photo of engine with alternator

Hey Jeff, are you using a separate voltage gauge or did you modify the stock one? Gary

Edited March 29, 2014 by The Oil Soup

[Jeff Balazs]

Gary;

Not 100% certain I follow your question.

My electrical system is all still 6 volt positive ground. The standard amp meter is hooked up and working....no voltage gauge. All the electrical components including everything I have added are 6 volt items so no voltage reducers. The alternator is 6V GM conversion with a built in regulator.

 

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[TodFitch]

We've had extraordinarily hot weather yesterday and today. We seldom get into the 90s even in the middle of summer and yet the last day of April and first of May have done it for us. Oddly, we had a high of only 65 a few days ago. Fortunately it is supposed to be back to normal in another couple of days with temperatures around 70°F.

 

Anyway, it seemed like reasonable weather to see if the heat shield I installed on the fuel pump a few months ago would make any difference. Had about 1/8 of a tank of March gas in the tank so it was probably winter blend (although I haven't read in the paper that they've switched yet so maybe it would be the same with a fresh tank of gas). 92°F on the outdoor thermometer when I left. Made 20 mile or so loop on local freeways at speeds between 55 and 65, temperature gauge reading visibly higher than usual because of the weather. Ran long enough for the oil pressure to drop to the lower levels that it gets to when really warm.

 

Having achieved all that, pulled into an ice cream establishment and had a cool and refreshing treat. After five minutes by my wristwatch, restarted the engine. No issues with starting which is normal for this car. I let the engine run at a slow idle for a while. After five minutes, just about when I was going to declare success, the engine died. That is longer than it used to go so I think the issue has been mitigated somewhat but obviously there is still a problem. For what it is worth, just before starting the engine my handheld IR temperature sensor showed about 185°F both on the block adjacent to the fuel pump and on the fuel pump mount itself. I couldn't get a reading on the main body of the pump because the heat shield was in the way. But if the metal of the pump only an inch or so away from the gas was 185°F the it is not too surprising that some of the shorter hydrocarbon molecules in the gas were at or above their boiling point.

 

After dousing the fuel pump with some water (made more difficult by the installation of the heat shield) I was able to restart the engine and it ran fine on the way home.

 

This was probably a tougher test than I'd done before but so maybe the issue I've had has been reduced. But it was still disappointing that the heat shield didn't fix the problem. On the plus side, if I'd just driven off I think the heat shield would have directed more airflow from the fan and radiator across the pump and I would not have had the issue. If so, then it is a bit better than last year.

[Jeff Balazs]

Tod;

Ya Mon........it's blazing hot here in OC....... 97 and Sana Ana winds. It appears we are going to have a really hot summer.

 

Your hard starting issue is very different from the one I was having. Mine had nothing to do with the fuel pump as I had deleted the mechanical unit and rerouted the fuel line to keep the supply cool. Still it is good to consider this issue as it is obviously a concern for many of these trucks.

 

I Think there are maybe 2 or 3 different ways this problem can manifest itself. I haven't had much time to revisit my study of this. In the interim I have fitted a Pertronix ignition system. I had also been having a bit of trouble starting when cold. After several sessions of carb removal and adjustment I discovered that my idle linkage setting was causing the hard starting. A couple of small adjustments have cured that. It seems that setting a 1 bbl Carter B & B for maximum vacuum readings may not actually be the best way to set this up. I have a slightly lower vacuum reading at idle now......but she sure starts and runs better. And here I was thinking something was seriously wrong with this carb.......

 

Jeff

 

Jeff

[TodFitch]

Just realized that while looking for a relatively recent thread on the topic of hot start issues I picked one on the truck side. Oh, well. Same basic engine, same basic issues.