new 1950 b2b project

[bondvagabond]

I've been thinking of getting a starting crank. My engine starts on the first revolution, would be trick to be downtown, get out the crank, give it a pull, then get in and drive off.  Will he make two?

Im sure I could redneck engineer a crank that would work, but it would not take much more work to make it darn close to original. I would likr to make them close to original if I made them for other people. All I would need is the length of the main shaft that goes in the crank nut, the length of the dog leg and the length of the handle. Also the diameter of the bar stock, and the length and diameter of the cross pin that engages the ears on the crank nut. Or if anyonr has a good picture of one with something in it I can scale off of like a mason jar of moonshine. Do you think other people would want these if I made up.a batch?

[bondvagabond]

Most likely as Don pointed out. The unknowing will install it the same way they find it in their daily. How is the coil wired, pos to the dist or neg to the dist?[/quote

]

It has a piece of red electrical tape around the cable going to the starter. The coil negatve terminal goes to the distributor. Supposedly it was driving before its mishap, rolled down driveway and hit a tree while warming up with no ebrake on, and I have had it running this way too. Is this hooked up wrong?

[Jeff Balazs]

Don't worry about guage damage. If they're still the original setup, the oil pressure and temp are both mechanical.  The ammeter will show a + flow (like it was charging) if you turn on the headlights and the battery is in backwards.  Starter won't make any difference unless the truck has been converted to 12V and the starter had not been rewound to accomodate it.  It will work fine, just don't grind on it for a long period of time w/o giving it time to cool off.  A 6 volt starter on a 12V system will get hot enough to damage itself if you let it get overheated.  I've been using the original 6 volt starters in my 1 ton and 36 Plymouth since I converted them several years ago.  Never had a problem.  If you get a rebuild kit for your fuel pump, make sure it is rated for today's fuels.  Good luck.. Mike

Won't most DC motors run backwards if you have the polarity reversed?

I know that generators and alternators are made and sold for specific polarity applications.......seems to me that this would have to be properly addressed?

I am not saying there is a problem here.......just trying to understand what might have been done if this is indeed a true polarity swap......and why someone would have done this?

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

Starter motors will spin the same way irrevelant of polarity as they use a field coil not a perminent maginet. 

[Merle Coggins]

It has a piece of red electrical tape around the cable going to the starter. The coil negatve terminal goes to the distributor. Supposedly it was driving before its mishap, rolled down driveway and hit a tree while warming up with no ebrake on, and I have had it running this way too. Is this hooked up wrong?

 

That definitely sounds like someone converted it to negative ground. If the ammeter was reading normally when running, that would also confirm that. If that's the case and all works well, just go with it. Unless you're going to try to use an original radio, you won't have any problems with it that way.

 

Won't most DC motors run backwards if you have the polarity reversed?

I know that generators and alternators are made and sold for specific polarity applications.......seems to me that this would have to be properly addressed?

I am not saying there is a problem here.......just trying to understand what might have been done if this is indeed a true polarity swap......and why someone would have done this?

 

Jeff

 

That's true for permanent magnet motors. The starter motor uses electro-magnetic fields, so if you reverse the polarity of the fields too, the rotation won't change.

[bondvagabond]

I bought an old timey engine vacuum/ fuel pump pressure gauge at a garage sale a couple years back, will see if she works probably monday. I am headed over to my cousins this afternoon for his kids bday party, will see if I can bum a compressor to blow out the fuel line s and verify that they are clear from pump to tank. Does anyone know of a fuel filter that will fit inside the sediment bowl, would prefer to keep the stock looking fuel setup but good filtration is key on old junk.

[Don Coatney]

There is a filter screen inside the fuel pump fish bowl. I have installed an additional filter under the floor on my car.

[Jeff Balazs]

I am still a bit baffled why anyone would go to the trouble of reversing polarity on a 6 volt system? I can see switching over to 12V negative ground......but it does not seem like there is anything at all to be gained by this.

I wonder if this truck has a heater in it? If so which way is the fan running? Also if there is electric wipers do they run properly? and park in the correct position?

Maybe I am just being overly suspicious........but I can't help thinking this may have been "swapped over" by mistake.

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

I am still a bit baffled why anyone would go to the trouble of reversing polarity on a 6 volt system? I can see switching over to 12V negative ground......but it does not seem like there is anything at all to be gained by this.

I wonder if this truck has a heater in it? If so which way is the fan running? Also if there is electric wipers do they run properly? and park in the correct position?

Maybe I am just being overly suspicious........but I can't help thinking this may have been "swapped over" by mistake.

 

Jeff

 

Trust me, it is absolutely not a planned change rather a plain goof.  Not that you'll ever take your truck to a Pep boys mechanic but if you did and it was anything that had to do with R&R battery work, it would get installed Negative Ground.  I still want to know if it were possible to toast a perfectly good starter motor by not having a groung strap from the engine to the frame and setting the truck up with negative ground.

 

Hank 

[Merle Coggins]

 I still want to know if it were possible to toast a perfectly good starter motor by not having a groung strap from the engine to the frame and setting the truck up with negative ground.

 

Hank 

 

What difference would a polarity change make? The current will still follow the same path, it'll just flow in the opposite direction.

[BigDaddyO]

It confuses the electrons.

[HanksB3B]

What difference would a polarity change make? The current will still follow the same path, it'll just flow in the opposite direction.

 O.K. then nevertheless my starter motor got toasted.  Somewhere in the mix I was advised to install a ground strap from the engine block to the frame and the lack of this was used as an explanation of why the starter got fried. 

 

Hank 

[Don Coatney]

 O.K. then nevertheless my starter motor got toasted.  Somewhere in the mix I was advised to install a ground strap from the engine block to the frame and the lack of this was used as an explanation of why the starter got fried. 

 

Hank 

If that is what fried the starter then why is not every starter fried in all trucks (and cars) that have not installed such a strap? Where is the ground wire from your battery connected?

[Merle Coggins]

I don't know how you ran your ground cable Hank, but mine is connected to the transmission at one of the cover bolts. Since the trans is bolted to the bell housing, which is bolted to the block, that makes a pretty good ground for the starter. I've thought about adding a ground stap or wire to the frame to assist the other electrical components, but they seem to be doing fine with out it.

 

Merle

[ggdad1951]

my battery is grounded to the bell housing

[Jeff Balazs]

I wasn't suggesting that anything would burn up by switching polarity. The whole idea of switching polarity for no possible gain just seems odd to me.

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

Thanks Guys, planning to crawl under later today. I't been a little cold & damp these past days.  I know there's been a lot of cold and moisture traveling from West to East.  Just ask me anythime you guys want to know if it's going to snow.  No substantial rain (but some and that's good) but huge cloud formations that form against the mountains (they are full of snow) and then fan out to the LA basin and then off to Arizona, Nerw Mexico  Texas and beyond.

 

Somwone should start a "Show me your Snow"  thread (other than a person that's about to crawl under their truck in the sunny low 70's) 

 

Hank 

 

Jeff Maybe they used a 6V to 12V converter to run a modern day negative ground radio or iPod ? (only reason    I can think of) would your gas gauge read  in reverse if you did that ? 

Edited November 25, 2013 by HanksB3B

[bondvagabond]

Well folks, shes running on her own tank now. Took the fuel pump apart and blew out the lines just to be sure. Everything looked good, then noticed the sediment bowl gasket was rock hard and cracked. it was leaking air in and keeping pump from building vacuum on the tank. I wrapped it with teflon tape to test hypothosis and it worked great. Will order propper replacement. Fires up great even with 10+ year old rusty plugs. New ones and brake rebuild parts supposed to come tomorrow. Cant wait to get it driving.

[B1B Keven]

Congrats!!

[HanksB3B]

my battery is grounded to the bell housing

 

Mark,

 

and my battey was grounded to the frame (wrong) by others. Is this why my perfectly good starter burnt out ?  I'm assuming Mark that your truck is the way it was supposed to be. (is there a paticular bolt it was attached to at the factory? got a pic?)  I guess then I can eliminate the added ground strap from the frame to the engine even though it's not doing any harm at present I'm guessing. 

 

Thanks in advance for helping me out,

 

Hank  

[TodFitch]

Main way to burn out a starter is to keep grinding it when the engine won't start for other reasons. They are not designed for continuous use. 15 seconds or so of cranking then let it cool down.

 

Things that could keep an engine from starting in 15 seconds are legion. And I guess having a poor ground between the engine and the battery might be one (causing high resistance and thus slow turn over of the starter). But, in general, I'd say no, your battery ground probably had no effect on the life of the starter.

[pflaming]

". . . 15 seconds or so of cranking then let it cool down."  My engine starts on the 2nd revolution. I'm going to get a crank so I can start it with one pull of the crank. That is how they were designed. My guess is that help in time of need was not that available so the cars had to start with a crank and that meant ONE PULL, no spinning. Dad's combine (grain harvester) had a big continental engine on it. It was crank start only. As a kid I would get the handle set at 11:00 o'clock then with all my body weight drop and give that engine a pull!  Had a Model U MM tractor, it's crank was permanently attached, one pull: had a 44 Model D John Deere, external fly wheel, one pull.

 

So tune it correctly and two revolutions, settle for no less. 

[Don Coatney]

Most hand crank tractors and farm impliments had a magneto ignition that will produce a very high voltage with no external power requirement. They are used in most airplane engines that also incorporate a dual system with two sparkplugs per cylinder.

[ggdad1951]

Mark,

 

and my battey was grounded to the frame (wrong) by others. Is this why my perfectly good starter burnt out ?  I'm assuming Mark that your truck is the way it was supposed to be. (is there a paticular bolt it was attached to at the factory? got a pic?)  I guess then I can eliminate the added ground strap from the frame to the engine even though it's not doing any harm at present I'm guessing. 

 

Thanks in advance for helping me out,

 

Hank  

 

no pictures and now under the cab, but there was a tapped hole in the top of the bell housing on the driver's side where it was attached....I can look to see if I can get in there for a pic if I remember to over lunch.

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

Your extra ground strap isn't doing any harm. If you did a lot of powder coating etc...and didn't get the mechanical connections all clean then it may just be doing it's intended job. At any rate it won't hurt anything. It does seem more likely that the damage would happen from overheating the starter motor. It would be difficult to attach the battery cables in such a way as to create a direct short in the motor. But then with Pep Boys I suppose anything is possible......

 

Jeff