Homemade Ammco 1750 gauge

[Lloyd]

Lloyd:  The Ammco 1750 is not hard to find. Several members of the club already have them.  As many of the current club members know i have the Ammco 1750 gage and also the Miller MT19 factory Brake tool with 7 sleeves.

I loan out the Ammco 1750 gage because it is lighter to ship and and is easier to use.

 

If you need to borrow the tool to do a brake job then contact me.  Basically the cost to use the tool is the cost of shipping the tool both directions versus making a tool.

 

Contact me.

 

Rich HArtung

desoto1939@aol.com

 

Hello Rich, Thanks for the offer. Ill will keep it in mind. I have been looking for the tool on the web and not come up with much at all. Mostly old advertisements that sold a while back. Only one on eBay that the seller told me sold minutes after it was up. So it seems they sell quick. I plan on keeping this car for the duration - long time so if I can get my hands on the tools I need to keep it up that would be my preference. But I am not going to let not having this tool stop me from this initial brake job either.

[Lloyd]

I do not have any written instructions. But by looking at the photos on the link GTK posted it should not be hard to figure out.

GTK? Sorry Don, don't know what link you are referring to.

[Don Coatney]

This link. GTK is the web master AKA P-15 D-24

Start here http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/brakes.html

 

 

Thanks, I have read that article. In fact its what pointed me to looking for the Ammco tool. I did look for the Plymouths club bulletin to see what kind of tool they had come up with but found out they want to sell an entire archive of bulletins on disc for about $35 apiece.

I will be referencing the tech article when I start this brake job. But I would like to secure or build a brake gauge before I get started taking stuff apart. I have already swapped out the brake lines, Ive got 4 NOS brake drums and just ordered new wheel cylinders and shoes from Andy Berbaum. Didn't have the master cylinder in stock so may have to wait a couple weeks on that.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I look on the reference page..brakes and it did not show but search got the link...the search function does work wonder here if you use it..be sure to be at the top of the forum when you inquire and not at the top of a individual thread...

 

 

http://oldmopar.com/p15/BrakeTool/ammco_1750.html

Edited September 2, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams

[Lloyd]

Yes I did see that page Plymouthy during my searches. I have been digging at this for 3 days. But that link shows the Ammco 1750 tool, and Don I have seen and read the link GTK posted. But neither of these tell me how to use the flangette and bearing parts that you show a pic of. Don you mentioned this in an earlier post:

http://p15-d24.com/topic/346-homemade-ammco-1750-gauge/

"There are instructions on the main page of the old forum (I believe it it still available) to make such a tool using a flangette and an "off the shelf" bearing. I bought the flangettes and the bearing but never made the tool as I converted to disc brakes."

 

It is those instructions I was trying to find just to see how the pieces worked. If the end product looks better than the dial indicator/flat bar method at the top then I would interested in going that route. But just looking at the flangette and bearing I do not know what those pieces are for.

 

Whoops, I see the flangette and bearing on GTK's link. Sorry guys -- its one of the photos there. I got it now.

 

Yeah Don, that looks promising. Let me take a closer look and Ill PM you.
 

Edited September 2, 2014 by Lloyd

[Plymouthy Adams]

the principle is the same..the items they show are home built adaptations of the tool and the principle of adjustment is the same..the shoes must be centered equally from the drum surface and concentric....HOWEVER unlike the 1750 how you going to gauge the diameter of the drum for the wear measured in thousands over the  initial 10/11 inch drums...outside of that I really do not know what you looking for I guess...I tried to help is all...

[Lloyd]

No problem Plymouthy. I read that post you put about installing your transmission. Some impressive fabrication. I was looking for what may be the best idea to fabricate the Ammco 1750 tool. Saw the tool showed in the first post on this discussion and thought it looked pretty good but was curious about the parts that Don was showing. Didn't know where to go to get the info about that idea.

I thought everyone was pointing me back to the Ammco 1750 on the link GTK posted but didn't see the picture of the flangette and bearing on the brake hub till I went back and looked at it again. My fault. Aint the first time I ran thru something and missed the details.

 

The first post on this discussion he says he used an outside caliper to measure the drum so it would take 2 tools. One fabricated to measure brake shoes and the other to check the drum. I would guess on the flangette tool I would need a pair of outside calipers as well.

 

I can see putting these brakes on is going to be a project. Ill be posting pics and details in progress so hopefully I will get it right with your help.

[desoto1939]

Lloyd:  I sent you a PM about the Ammco tool. Or contact me directly at my home email.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Tom Skinner]

Keep Looking, I snaged one on ebay for $30 about a year ago

[Don Coatney]

I like the innovation of making a home built tool.

[Lloyd]

Lloyd:  I sent you a PM about the Ammco tool. Or contact me directly at my home email.

 

Rich HArtung

Desoto1939@aol.com

Hey Rich, I saw the PM and I appreciate it but to be honest coming up with the cash deposit off the bat isn't going to happen for me. I didn't see the one on ebay although I have been searching on there for one. Course that don't mean it isn't there, I missed the pic of the flangette and bearing tool.

 

Honestly Im looking at going the flangette route and picking those parts up off don., surely not going to pay $400 for the tool. Besides I kind of like building stuff. But I will keep you in mind rich if all else fails.

 

Thanks to all for the input. Ill be back when I get started.

[AlDeBear]

Lloyd, Not to hijack this thread but you might consider ptwothree's method of adjusting your brakes found here  http://p15-d24.com/topic/34051-adjusting-your-brakes-the-easy-way/. His method isn't based so much on measuring as on the 'feeling' of the shoes against the drums. If you should decide to go that route be sure to put a die on the brake shoe anchor bolts BEFORE welding the nut onto the end of the bolt. Good luck Lloyd! Larry

[Lloyd]

Hey Larry, thanks for the link. Never done brakes that required any adjusting other than the star lug thru a slot in the backing plate. So this is a new one.

 

I have been looking at the attached pic and for the life of me cant figure out how it will work. The Indicator clamp is on a bolt attached to the flangette which does not put the pivot point at the center of the spindle. If you turn the flangette wont the indicator come off the brake shoe as the bolt gets closer to the shoe? Am I missing something here??

 

 

[P15-D24]

Remember what you are doing, centering the shoes to the axle. The arm (with dial indicator) pivots around the shoe allowing you to measure the distance from the center of the axle to different locations on the shoe. With the major and minor adjusters you move the toe or heel of the shoe in/out until you have the shoe entirely centered. Move the dial gauge to the location your adjusting and you can measure the amount needed to move.

 

The other piece to this process is you need to determine the max diameter of the drum with a drum gauge before starting the adjustment. Then set the shoes to that diameter less the clearance, typical .006. This way the drum will just slide on after the adjustment. It's actually a pretty quick process once you understand the objective, centering the shoes with .006 clearance from the drum. Couple other tips, make sure our drums are true, if not get them turned on a brake lathe. If the drum is out of round you will never get the brakes adjusted correctly. Lastly, I don't recommend the process mentioned in post #37. It will not give you anywhere near full braking capability. If you do that process , then adjust them correctly you will be very surprised by how much more braking capability you have. 

[Don Coatney]

I agree post 37 is not the best way to adjust brakes. If adjusted that way your wear pattern will look as pictured below.

 

[Lloyd]

I will be using NOS drums front and back I managed to find on ebay.

So first measure the drums using a caliper, then take this measurement to the brake shoes -.006. I would then need to use a pair of calipers to measure the diameter of the shoes and adjust them to the drums diameter -.006.

Then use the tool to get the shoes centered on the axle.

[desoto1939]

Loyd:  So have you figured what the cost is to get a quality caliper to measure the drums and also the brake shoes.  And now you still do not have the correct method to do the brake setup  You might be close and you might not be close.

 

So figure all of the hassle of trying to make the tool, learn how the tool works and even guess if it works.  The use of the Ammco brake gage is the only way to go. Just ask some of the members that have used my gage and they will tell you that they would have never gotten a good brake without the proper tool.

 

The offer is still available so when you get to that point let me know. Also in some cars the toe has a different gap and the heel has a different gap so make sure you have read your service manual to make sure you have the proper setting.

 

Rich HArtung

[TodFitch]

If I recall correctly, the Ammco instructions have you set the pin/dowel to the drum diameter minus the desired clearance. It is probably just me, but I find it easiest to set the pin/dowel on the tool to be the actual drum diameter and then use feeler gauges to check the lining to pin/dowel (drum) clearance. 

 

Plural on gauges as my service manual lists a different value for heel and toe. Other years list one number for heel and toe, so check your year and model's specification when doing this operation.

[Lloyd]

Yep You guys are right. My manual calls for the heel adjustment at .006 and the toe adjustment at .012.

 

Right now I am looking at an indicator clamp on ebay for $8. Still poking around for the extension. Looking at the flangette tool - the part that is in contact with brake shoe, I don't know what that is called and cant seem to find it but it looks like it takes the place of a dial indicator. I am guessing I can place a dial indicator there instead. I have looked at a few, I think I have come up with something using a dial indicator and a 'snug mount' on the end of the extension. From the pics I'm looking at that should be all I need to put this tool together.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Lloyd

[Lloyd]

By the way Tod, thanks for the tip about using a feeler gauge.

[Lloyd]

Haven't yet got everything I need for my brake gauge yet but getting started on swapping brake shoes and wheel cylinders.

 

I have some NOS brake drums I would like to use but they do not have the flanges attached to them. I was considering taking them to a machinist and see if he could swap them for me but after doing a search on this forum I came across a couple discussions where some had recommended to grind the rivets off and leave them off, then install bolts on the flange or just use the stock bolts thru the wheel to center the hub.

 

I can see how that could work and am thinking about doing it. Thinking about installing bolts thru the flange. But I would like to hear from someone who has done it and if any opinions about why not to.

 

1. I also read in one of the posts to not use grade 8 bolts and could not find an answer why not.

2. Would you just use bolts or is there a special type of bolt? Possibly some lock-tite as well??

2. I know that some cars use a left hand thread on the wheel studs. Would that be something to consider?

3. Would this work for both the front and rear wheels?

 

 

 

 

[Niel Hoback]

Its been 15 years now since I separated the hubs and drums. There is no evidence that it makes any difference to either part or the performance of the brakes.  I caution you to use a socket wrench or piece of pipe to support the back of the hub when you drive the rivets out after grinding off the heads. The hubs CAN bend.  There is no need to bolt the drums on the hubs, the five lug bolts will do the job. Chevys used loose drums for decades.  A plus is the ability to do brake work without pulling the hubs or front wheel bearings.  A minus is that you lose the guide pin. I use a roll pin in one hole for a guide pin, but its no big deal.