1939 Ply P8 New Project

[Lloyd]

Hey Ed,

Thanks for the offer. I got a 218 engine off the classifieds right here. Dave Singer in Connecticut was giving away a 218 so I got it shipped to Texas. Its in the machine shop right now getting fitted for some 30 over pistons.

However I see your in Alabama which isn't that far, having another 218 engine may be something I would consider.

What kind transmission is it? Bell housing and all?

Was it running?

[desoto1939]

Here is your answer to the floor shift question.  In 1938 the Desoto had the floor shift.  In 1939 The Chrysler, Dodge and Desoto all switched to the Three on the tree, coulmn shifting.  The lower priced model of the Plymouth and I can not remember which model still retained the floor shift but the upper model had it on the coumn.

 

1939 Chr, Des, and Dodge had the electric wiper motor and the Plymouth retained the vaccum wioer motor.  The glass and doors and running boards from the 39 Des,Chry and dodge can interchange.  The dodge hood will not fit on the Chr/Des cars because they are about an 1 to 1/12 shorter.  rears were the same and also trans.  The 39 dodge trunk will fit the 39 Desoto. 

The licence lamp on the 39 Chr/Des/Dodge is the same unit but the Desoto had a small trim piece on the outside.  Most people do not know this and you can use the non chrome licence lamp on all the cars.  Ply had its own licence lamp unit.  Ply use the left tail light that had a silver knob on it and did not use the silver knob on the right rear light.  The know was used to reflect the light whenthe car was parked on the side of the road at the curb.

 

Chr/Des/Dodge had the careye glass reflector in the chrome trim ring for the two taillights.

 

39 Desoto had a left and right taillight lens.  Quick way to tell the difference is that when you look at the lens and on the bottom corner there is the word DET.  If the Det is in the lower right corner then this is a left lens. If the Det is inthe lower left corner then it is a right lens.  Quick way to spot them. ALso when you turnover the lens there is in the upper top corner either an L or R in the lens and it is embossed in the lens.  These are hard to see so I use the Det script method.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Oldguy48]

I have nothing to add about the engine/transmission/etc. questions you have. Seems like most of your questions have been covered. But in your first post, you mentioned A/C. Check out "Old Air" units. (Maybe you already have). They have a "Hurricane" unit that is fairly compact, and works well. I have one in my P15, and am pleased with it. Good luck with your project, and please keep us posted on your progress. And we like pictures...lots of pictures.

Wayne

[Young Ed]

Here is your answer to the floor shift question.  In 1938 the Desoto had the floor shift.  In 1939 The Chrysler, Dodge and Desoto all switched to the Three on the tree, coulmn shifting.  The lower priced model of the Plymouth and I can not remember which model still retained the floor shift but the upper model had it on the coumn.

 

 

The lower level with floor shift was the Roadking. The higher level with column shift was simply the Deluxe.

[Lloyd]

Check out "Old Air" units. (Maybe you already have). They have a "Hurricane" unit that is fairly compact, and works well. I have one in my P15, and am pleased with it. Good luck with your project, and please keep us posted on your progress. And we like pictures...lots of pictures.

Wayne

 

Thanks Wayne. I would still like to put AC in it. Texas can get pretty warm. Old Air does show a unit for a 39 Ply but it is 12v. I was not planning on converting over to 12v, I just picked up the complete and original light systems for the headlights and taillights, took a while and he was really proud of the stuff but I got it. If I have to convert over to 12v to install AC then that will come later. I want to get it running first but will I still be able to use the original headlights and taillights with a 12v system?

[TodFitch]

. . . I want to get it running first but will I still be able to use the original headlights and taillights with a 12v system?

Classic and Vintage Bulbs in Australia list 12v versions of their quartz-halogen pre-focused bulbs, so you should be able to just swap out the light bulbs to go to 12v.

[blucarsdn]

Lots of good advise has been offered, however, the main point of the original question has been missed.. The man is hoping to clone the '39 into a car that will cruise the highways at 60-70 mph in air conditioned comfort.. To accomplish this in a '39 Plym with a flat-head engine of any size is out of the question, w/out extensive modifications to the car.....

Yes I know a couple of guys that have '39 and/or later Plym's with flathead engines that will run at speed on the highways, however, they have OD transmissions, higher gear ratio rear axles, improved braking/suspension and engines that have multiple carbs, cams, etc..

My ,39 Plym conv. cpe will run all day long on the highway at 70 mph +. in air conditioned comfort, however, my entire powertrain is 2001 and later....  Bill

[blucarsdn]

One added thought to repowering an under-powered car... If a flat-head engine is the preferred choice to repower the car, why mess with a "pigs ear,trying to turn it into a silk purse"... The Chrysler/Desoto 250 CID long blocks will bolt into the Dodge/Plym cars with very little effort... The '46-48 Dodges were sold in Canada with the long block "spitfire" engines.. During the late 1940's, early '50's, a Chrysler Spitfire engine swap into a Dodge/Plym was a very common application.... Bill

[Lloyd]

Thanks Bill. Hopefully the direction I am going will work out in the long run. I already have a 218 in the machine shop getting bored and fitted for pistons, new cam bearings, valve guides and seats. Plus I have a 230 crank getting turned as well. That's happening right now. I will be replacing the rods with new 230 rods, all new valve train, cam/crank gears and chain, oil pump and a new camshaft. The new items I have ordered from Vintage Power Wagons. I also have acquired an R7 trans w/overdrive that I will be swapping out along with the pressure plate, clutch disc and flywheel.

 

I don't plan on re-gearing the rear end until I get it running and try it out although I know I will need to get the drive shaft adjusted. Which is a bit of concern, I'm wondering if I fit the drive shaft from the R7 to the original rear end then decide to change the rear end will I be able to re adjust and use the same drive shaft?

 

However before I do that I will need to replace the entire braking system. All of it. Plus run thru it and make sure everything is working. If I need to swap out the rear end I was planning on looking at that down the line. Along with AC, that will be down the line as well. Main concern right now is get this engine in and get the transmission swapped out with the R7.

After that it will just be what is needed to get the car on the road.

 

Thanks Tod, its good to know I can keep the original lights and swap out the bulbs.

[wayfarer]

You indicate 'swapping flywheels'...just a reminder, if you are using the 230 crank you must also use the 230 flywheel.

[Don Coatney]

If you have not done so I suggest you read the "installing valve guides" section found in the technical tips section of this web page and pass the procedure for correct instillation of valve giudes along to your machine shop.

 

Click nere----->  http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/tech_tips.html

[Don Coatney]

The Chrysler/Desoto 250 CID long blocks will bolt into the Dodge/Plym cars with very little effort... Bill

Perhaps to those who have not done it it may appear as if very little effort is required. This swap is far from a bolt in application.

[Lloyd]

If you have not done so I suggest you read the "installing valve guides" section found in the technical tips section of this web page and pass the procedure for correct instillation of valve giudes along to your machine shop.

 

Click nere----->  http://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/tech_tips.html

Hey Don, thank you.

I looked at the tech tips, that's for adjusting valves not valve guide installation. I was planning on seating/lapping and installing the valves myself, that would include adjustments so that article will definitely help me. The machine shop will just be replacing the valve guides and seats. Is there a special procedure they should know about when installing valve guides?

[Don Coatney]

I suggest you read the entire page

[Dave72dt]

Scroll down the page.  There is a section specific to valve GUIDES.

[Dave72dt]

J3L2404 - anything to do with the plate number of the Buick in the movie Fargo?

[Don Coatney]

J3L2404 - anything to do with the plate number of the Buick in the movie Fargo?

close.

[Dave72dt]

VIN? Dealer plate?

Edited November 14, 2013 by Dave72dt

[Lloyd]

Yep, sure is some important info about valve guides down further. Thank you and I will make certain my machinist is aware of this.

[Don Coatney]

VIN?

nope

[TodFitch]

VIN?

A search on J3L2404 gives the answer. If you are too poor to do the search I could personalize it for you.

[Dave72dt]

A search on J3L2404 gives the answer. If you are too poor to do the search I could personalize it for you.

 Just did the search to come up with the correct answer.  I guessed it had to do with the movie and recall her asking about a particular car.  Also recall the joke now and yes, I do understand it.

[40desoto]

I have a 3 speed overdrive transmission that came out of my 1940 desoto its an R10 transmission. I was matted to a 250 desoto 25in motor

[40desoto]

Plenty out there be patient and do alot of research. I found a person in las Vegas selling a convertible 1950 plymouth with a strong running 230 0ffy dual intake, older fenton aluminum head split exhaust for $3000. Would of been worth it just for the drivetrain

[blucarsdn]

 

IThanks Tod, its good to know I can keep the original lights and swap out the bulbs.

Upgrading the lights on the pre '40 cars, i.e. reflectors vs sealed beams is like tying to modernize the powertrain, everyone has a different idea as to what the best way to go is... Myself included...

I wanted to keep the original square '39 headlights in my car.. Like most pre '40 vehicles, mine had been converted to sealed beams using the "Arrow" brand of conversions... Yuck... I haunted the swap meets,eBay etc., looking for '39 headlights.. After gathering up quite a pile of buckets, etc., I found out that I needed left and right, early and late depending on the build date of my car..

I finally found a complete set, buckets, reflectors,etc., on ebay.. They were like new having sat in a barn in Conn for many years..

Following the advise of several guys I converted my headlights to halogen... Wrong.. the halogen bubs don't work well with the Plym lens prizums, lots of light with no direction.. I ended up redoing the whole system having reflectors resilvered, chrome does not work.. I used Rod Frances "12 v Bright bulbs" they are made to work with the stock lens... Bill