Just Bought What I Think Is A Plymouth - Very New To It All!

[stanleywindrush]

Good evening Gentlemen (well it is here where I'm writing from!)

 

I'm Stanley and I have, in a moment of madnesss, bought a car from ebay when it failed to reach it's reserve, and I had no knowledge of the marque or anything about it mechanically.

 

I have purchased, what I think to be, a 1950 Plymouth super deluxe.  Its a runner (just about) and seems quite intact.

 

I know nothing about the car - not even how the gearshift works as the previous owner is deceased and there is no paperwork.

 

Im based here in Bristol in the UK and the car is right hand drive, but marked up as a Dodge.

 

What would really help would be someone to tell me how to start it correctly (as it turns and doesn't catch, unless you put 'easy start ' down the throat of the carb), drive it - and what to look out for.  Also a good source for spares would help, and if anyone knows a fellow owner her in the uk so I can call them and ask questions!

 

Here's a couple of poor photos of when I collected it a couple of days ago..

 

 

Thanks for any help.

 

Stanley Windrush

 

There's only two things in life that involve no skill, laying down and spending money, everything else involves some sort of intelligence.

[Young Ed]

Looks like a nice car. Has 49 bumpers. I suspect you might be in need of a carb rebuild if it starts and runs after you spray it. Could also be a weak fuel pump or one that looses its prime.

[stanleywindrush]

I'm not sure what Carb it's meant to have on it - the one fitted has a square glass panel in the front so you can see the fuel - there also seems to be a pressure regulator and strainer that has been side lined on the bulkhead - picture is poor I know, apologies, I'll get some better ones soon.

 

Is there somewhere I could get a rebuilt carb from?

 

Also is the vehicle negative earth?? I'm not sure the battery is connected up the right way around??  The chap before had been using a 12v battery - I have now sourced a 6v, and (of course) the starter sound sluggish...

 

I have had it running for a short while, but had to wind up the revs to keep it ticking over.. where's the timing marks on these?

 

Lots of questions I know - but that's how I'm learning!!

 

Stan

 

Edited August 15, 2013 by stanleywindrush

[greg g]

Check the lamps, if they are 12 V the car may have had a change over.  Or look on the generator and distributor.  If their tags are red then they are 6 V.  If the car is Stock it should be 6V positive earth. If 6V it should have heavy gauge primary battery cables. 1 gauge or lower are recommended.

 

There are several possibilities for your car.  A Plymouth Body which that is would have been a Special Deluxe.  Canadian built cars were Plymouths with Dodge trim bits.  You will want to measure the engine head length as Chrysler mad cas in Canada all had 25 inch engines regardless of marque.  In the US Dodge and Plymouth used a 23.5 inch long engine, and Chrysler and DeSoto used a 25.  There were also something known as (I believe) Kennsington cars.  They were knockdowns, assembled in England.  I believe the K cars used the 25 inch block also.  The difference in engine length is critical to ordering engine parts when needed. 

 

The shift lever operated a 3 speed plus reverse.  Center middle is neutral.  Toward you and down is 1st, up and away from you is 2nd, and away and down is high gear, reverse is toward you and up.  Dodges in the US had fluid drive, to so sure about what your car is set up with, but it is a good idea to assure a well operating parking brake, and or wheel chocks till you get it sorted.

 

As always posting up some pictures of thing like carbs, starters, generators, etc is helpful. 

 

Timing marks should be on the main crankshaft pulley, there should be a triangular pointer welded to the timing chain cover.  TDC is a good starting point for initial timing. 

 

To check for proper fuel flow disconnect the fuel line at the carb, direct the flow into a suitable container,( a plastic beverage bottle will work) with an assistant, remove the coil wire from the dist to prevent a start, then have the asst crank the starter.  Count 12 fuel pulses.  That should give you 8 to 10 ounces of gas in the bottle, less points to problems in the tank, lines, or fuel pump.  Sometimes a blast of low pressure compressed air into the line from the pump to the tank will clear thing to allow fuel to flow.

 

Reproduction factory service manuals are available on line for not much money and are a great starting point for buildig your knowledge of your vehicle.  There are also 3 or 4 forum members living in England.  Hopefully they will post some intros.

[stanleywindrush]

Thanks for your reply

 

Sound advice...

 

Can't wait to get into the garage and start problem solving.. ill post pictures when I get them.

 

I have already ordered a manual from the US on the car -  I think it's an Australian manufactured car badged as a Dodge, but will investigate.

 

Is the gearshift normal with a clutch? - it won't be a fluid drive or anything??

 

Thanks

 

PS will the positive battery cable attach directly to the engine block and the negative into the wiring loom?

[Captain Neon]

Car with positive earth will have the positive pole connected to the engine block, and the negative pole connected to the starter solenoid.  Negative earth will be reversed.

 

Thanks for your reply

 

Sound advice...

 

Can't wait to get into the garage and start problem solving.. ill post pictures when I get them.

 

I have already ordered a manual from the US on the car -  I think it's an Australian manufactured car badged as a Dodge, but will investigate.

 

Is the gearshift normal with a clutch? - it won't be a fluid drive or anything??

 

Thanks

 

PS will the positive battery cable attach directly to the engine block and the negative into the wiring loom?

[Andydodge]

Stanley, welcome to the best mopar forum, these guys know their stuff....what makes you think its an Oz build?.........does it have a "Built by T J Richards, Adelaide or Chrysler Australia" plate somewhere?.........its what the yanks call a Plodge, Plymouth body, Dodge grille & badges.......most Dodges sold here in Oz were that.....anyway, check the engine number stamped into the block above the generator it should tell you what it is, ie, should start with a "D" something.....anyway its a nice car........regards, andyd

[DJ194950]

More pictures please after a chance to look at it closely.

 

Doug

[greg g]

US Dodges had fluid drive from 41 or so on.  The Plymouth chassis did not allow for the extra depth of the fluid drive set up.  Go to AllPar.com and search the fluid drive sections.  The fluid drive is not the transmission it is the crankshaft to transmission interface, and several options as to which transmission was bolted behind it.  Being a Badge engineered Dodge, it is likely Plymouth running gear which in all likely hood is a standard flywheel. dry clutch set up.

 

It is always interesting when folks from England, Australia, the rest of Europe, and from South Africa, and South America show up on the board, and illustrate how many different variations of the cars and trucks are out and about.

[Scruffy49]

Would the "upside down" column mess with his shifting? Being serious, I can't drive a 3 on the tree anyway, they get tossed in favor of top loaders.

 

And the only English built car I've has was left hand drive (USA market) with transplanted 1974 Datsun 210 engine, top loader 4 speed and rear axle. Only good for driving down the sidewalk... 54ish Ford Squire 2 door wagon.

 

Edited because I can't type tonight...

Edited August 15, 2013 by Scruffy49

[_shel_ny]

Would the "upside down" column mess with his shifting? Being serious, I can't drive a 3 on the tree anyway, they get tossed in favor of top loaders.

 

 

 

Same "H" patter, just on the opposite side. Had a RH steering Mazda PU in Thailand. A bit strange shifting left handed, but gears in the same spots.

[GlennCraven]

Welcome to the forum, Stanley, and congratulations on what I think is an amazing find. You're in the right place; these forum regulars really know their stuff! ... Enjoy the car and I look forward to following your progress.

[greg g]

Does the item on the firewall/bulkhead have any wires going to it??? Looks from the pic to be just a filter with the sediment bowl on the bottom, looks like it could use a good clean up.  I think the carb might be sourced to deal with the linkage differences imposed by the right hand drive set up.  If the item is just a filter, I might just by pass it for testing purposes and till everything else in the fuel system is  sorted.  Also inspect all that rubber fuel line.  It could look great on the outside but be mushy inside causing low fuel or even blockages under vacuum.

[greg g]

Earlier I mentioned Kensington as a possible name for the Chrysler vehicle assembly plant in England, further searching shows a correction is needed.  Chrysler did assemble cars and other vehicles from parts and subassemblies, but it was in a shop located near the Royal Botanical Gardens on the banks of the River Thames in Mortlake Road, Kew, Surrey.  This operation lasted into the mid 60's before being shut down.  These vehicles with parts and sub assemblies sourced from the US and Canada were known as Kew Cars.

 

[DJ194950]

Appears to have a 50 ply. grill and 49 Ply. bumpers.Later type 50 Ply. gauges as per the greenish tint on the faces (supposedly for later Ply.'s that year, but will fit all 49-50 Ply. cars). Earlier 49-50 were flat greyish/black

 

Look dor the ID plates as mentioned. will tell the big story!

 

Best to you.

 

Doug

[Andydodge]

Stanley & Greg, here in Oz all mopar 6's from the 50's onwards tended to be given the slang term of "Kew's".........Frod & Chebby owners ignorant in the ways of the world thought this was "Q"...............however those of us in the know.......(eventually) came to realise that this was in fact Kew and was a reference to the aroundabout sourcing of these engines thru the Kew plant in the UK and in fact did refer to the 25" Canadian sourced engine. The 23" engine was generally available up until the late 50's when the standard trans was used behind a mopar product here............but if the overdrive trans or Powerflite was ordered it appears that the 25" engine was a mandatory inclusion...........but I degress...........Stanley...........how about some engine/body numbers?............lol........btw I won't mention the cricket if you don't..........lol.(these yanks won't know what we are talking about anyway.......lol".....regards, andyd 

[greg g]

Wickets must be falling somewhere.  What test are they in???

[mrwrstory]

Where is Robin, our  UK member with the P15 convert as I remember.

[stanleywindrush]

Good evening chaps, (and possible chapesses!!)

 

I only managed to have a quick look at the car today and took some pictures with my 'phone.

 

It has an Australian tag on the bulkhead and a small tag above that which is hard to read.

 

I also noticed the battery is connected the wrong way around?? (When it's running the ampmeter says its discharging)

 

It does start and run - but what damage would this wrong connection of the battery have done??

 

The carb isn't stock I think as I found one in the boot that may be the original. - picture attached

 

Is there somewhere I can buy a fully reconditioned carb? - I'd like to put back an original one.

 

Also I think the fuel pump is lazy as it doesn't fuel up the carb - I have had to pour fuel directly down the carb and put on full choke to start it.

 

I am about to buy a dual polarity 6v fuel pump to make sure I have a good prime - can't pour in fuel every time I want to start it.,,

 

That's as far as I got today.. I will try to measure the block next time.

 

Thoughts please!

 

Stan

[greg g]

Your mounted carb looks like something off a mid 60's to early 70's Ford something 6 cylinder, Falcon, Mustang or Fairlane hear abouts used those. The one in the trunks looks proper to the year but the bottom end seems to be missing. If you get it running with the one one it it should be OK unless you are going for authenticity then the carters B1B's are available on ebay and rebuild kits are available and easy to apply. Give the mounted carb a close look, some of that style had an externally tune able main jet.  That would make a nice addition to adjusting it to the car.  Were it me I would just swap the battery around and see what happens, no damage can be caused by running with reversed polarity.  Also when you do the swap, ,ake sure the positive terminal from the coil goes to the distributor, and the negative is fed by the ign switch.

[B-Watson]

That is an Australian-built 1950 Plymouth.  Take a close look at the rear doors and the quarter window.   The 1950 Australian Plymouths, DeSoto Diplomats and Dodge Kingsways used the 1949 bodies with new tallights and grilles, but kept the rear window and bumpers.   The 1951 models got the new front ends and rear windows, but kept the 1949-50 front window.

 

The engine is probably a 25`block 218-cid unit as Chrysler Australia imported Canadian-built Plymouth P20 chassis for the Pymouth and DeSoto Diplomat (added an `S` to the model and engine number) and Dodge D36 for the Dodge Kingsway.

 

Canadian Plymouths were virtually identical to the US Plymouth, save for the engine.  Same with the Plymouth-size Dodge - same as the US-built Kingsway, save for the engine.  Contrary to popular belief, the 1949-52 Plymouth-based Dodges did not use Coronet front fenders and hoods modified to fit the Plymouth body - Dodge body was too wide.  In reality the front clip on the small Dodges was based on the Plymouth units, with the hoods and front fenders punched in different places for the lights, grille and trim.

 

Chrysler did not build cars in England after WW II, although they did build Dodge Trucks at Kew.   Also Fargo and DeSoto models for export.  When Chrysler acquired Rootes, Dodge Truck production was combined with Commer at the Rootes plant.

Edited August 18, 2013 by B-Watson

[turtle47]

It looks like the bottom of the original carburetor is still attached to the intake and the other carburetor is bolted to it . Deffanetly rigged

[Andydodge]

Stanley, well yep that's an Oz plate..........lol.....wonder how the car got to the UK, or why?..........anyway from my 1946-53 Plymouth Dodge Desoto Service Manual published by Chrysler Australia, Keswick South Australia the D36 is a 1950 Dodge, supposedly with an engine of 3&3/8th bore, 4&1/16th stroke which is 218.06 throbbing cubes developing 97horses...it should be whats known here in Oz as a "Kew" ...should be 25" long..........Greg's right re the carby, the remains in the boot/trunk is the original Ball & Ball Carter.........the one on the engine if working should be fine at present, it sounds like the fuel pump maybe R/s........I'd try to replace it or at least check it out & fit a new kit. When I was chasing parts for my flathead build I found that there were a couple of guys in Turkey who listed NOS parts at very reasonable prices from there and were good to deal with, they tend to list of US Ebay under 1948 Plymouth.......worth checking out occasionally.

I just checked my Gavin Farmer book "Great Ideas in Motion, A History of Chrysler in Australia 1946-1981" and he lists a total of 2130 D32S/D36S Dodges for 1950.......that US sourced workshop manual will have everything about Mopars BUT you need to determine the engine head length as this will confirm its parentage, 23" Plymouth/Dodge.....25" Chrysler/Desoto.......also never mention "Kew" to anyone outside of Australia......the Yanks will have no idea what you are talking about.....lol...........andyd

[UKPlymouth]

Hi Stanley, welcome to the forum.

 

I'm up in the Midlands near Northampton and run a stock '48 Plymouth Special de-luxe.  I imported it about 8 years ago from South Africa so, like yours it is right, hand drive.

These ar great cars, good, simple engineering that are (usually) nice to work on.  I have in the past rebuilt the brakes, the carb, the distributor and last year rebuilt the engine after the rings on 4 and 5 gave up compression.

If you need any advice I'm no expert but will try to help.  A good source of spares in the UK is Dallas Auto Parts - they specialise in Jeeps and Dodge power wagons.

If you want to contact me either PM me or my email is gsmcd@yahoo.com

Don't know if Goodwood is your thing but I am there this year, let me know if you are able to make contact.

Cheers

 

Garry 

[Scruffy49]

You may find it cheaper to work on, and operate, than a same era English built Ford. When our Squire needed new front struts, they had to come from the U.K. At such a stupidly, phenomenally high cost, that we swapped the front suspension out. 180 pounds per strut, 180 pounds per strut core charge, and 180 pound shipping... that's a lot of money. And your car is big enough to be on the road safely, ours was so tiny we could literally drive it down a municipal sidewalk...

 

"Gumby", the car from Hades...