headlights showing almost no light

[DutchEdwin]

I know it has been mentioned before, when running headlights on 6V they do not give much light. I measured loosing 2V in the wiring.

To solve this is changing to thick wires and run them as short as possible from the battery to the lights.

I want to keep my '55 as original as possible. I do not want to use modern relays. Does anyone know if there are double operating relays, one side for headlight, one side for high beam. If a double relay does not exist, what other relays are there. It doesn't have to be from '55.

[randroid]

Dutch,

A few years ago one of the members posted about relays for the headlights and even included a wiring diagram, but for the life of me I don't remember who it was or what I'd search for as it was in response to another post. Hopefully he will chime in.

So far as losing 2v through the wiring, the wires could be to blame if they've ever been grossly over heated or something like that but I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that the resistance comes from cruddy terminals. We all know what the cure for that is; take all the connections apart and clean them with steel wool or even sandpaper. It isn't a glamorous job but will usually do the trick. Even if that's not the main culprit it's a job that needs to be done on every car that hasn't had it done by the current owner. Don't forget the connections on the dimmer switch.

-Randy

[Jim Yergin]

Edwin,

I am using two Autolite 6 volt headlight relays in my '41 Plymouh. One for low beam one for high. I found them on eBay. They fit just fine on the driver's side inner fender.

Jim Yergin

[Jerry Roberts]

It seems to me that you could get buy with just one relay . Perhaps on the wire that goes to the dimmer switch supplying the power . Just guessing here .

[desoto1939]

They do make a dula headlight relay allin one unit. The same unit works low and high beam. You also run a power wire 10 or 12 gage to the relay to get direct power. The other wires run from the floor high low beam switch to the rlay and then wires run tot he appropriate headlight block on the fender.

I have one on my 39 desoto setup this way. Also check that you have a good ground on the headlights to insure that they are getting enough juice.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Jim Yergin]

Edwin,

I just remembered that I am using a 6 volt VW headlight relay on my overdrive kick-down switch. It is a two position relay for both high and low beams. They can be found on eBay.

Jim Yergin

[TodFitch]

I would be checking some more of those connections to locate those 2 volts:)

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=33800

Yep. 2v drop across a junction with the 10 or 15 or so amps your headlights are drawing is a lot of heat. Very likely a fire waiting (but not for long) to happen. And badly cooking whatever it is before actually igniting it.

[DutchEdwin]

Thanks all for the reply's. I rewired my car about 12 years ago. Even then the headlight didn't produce much light. I could mount knurled rings between each connection to get better contact. I think it doesn't do the trick to get the most out of it. Headlight is halogene 55Wx2= 18 amps. I took at least one size bigger wire for all wires when I rewired the car, from 18 to 16 for the headlights, and 10 for the main wire from batt to amp meter in the car. But still I can feel the light wires warming up a little when the lights are on. And that's resistance, so loss of volts and need of thicker wire. So I made up my mind to get short wire length as possible, go to gage 10 and put in a relay to switch them on.

This will also take the amps out of the main wire to the am-meter and the rest of the electrics and save the light switch.

I looked on eBay, but no 6V relays other then GM stuff for horns. I do not know if they can take the 15 amps.

Jim, can you tell me what part number they are or what car they are used in and what for. I like the autolite ones, as a lot of autolite was used in our cars.

Rich, can you tell me what dual relay you are using?

A picture would help.

Thanks.

[greg g]

might be the grounds are corroded, and after the load resistance is still resistance.

[DutchEdwin]

Randy, thanks, I did some seaching on this site, and come up with some good posts.

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=16390&highlight=headlights+relay

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=28661&highlight=headlights+relay

Also the wiring diagram I was planning to use.

[Jim Yergin]

Edwin,

Auto-Lite HRB-4201

Jim Yergin

[DutchEdwin]

Hi Jim, thank you for the reply Do you know what car it was used in and how much amps the relay is rated for?

[Jim Yergin]

Edwin,

Don't know the amp rating. Looking on eBay it appears it was used in a variety of cars including Hudson and Studebaker.

Jim Yergin

[Young Ed]

I took at least one size bigger wire for all wires when I rewired the car, from 18 to 16 for the headlights, and 10 for the main wire from batt to amp meter in the car.

I'm not sure if they reduced the sizes by 55 but I followed the 49 sizes(46-48 wiring doesnt list gauge) and the smallest was 16. I think the batt to amp was 8. Like you I replaced all the 16 with 14.

[suntennis]

The wire diagram for cars up to 1954 does not show a headlite relay. Maybe in 1955 that was added. The 54 diagram shows a horn relay and a overdrive relay. Power for the headlites goes from the lite switch to the high beam switch to the headlites. The high beam switch gives power to either high beam or low beam and not both at the same time.

[DutchEdwin]

Jim Yergin,

I've been looking for information on the amp rating of the auto-lite HRB-4201 relays. Other then they are used in 194-1941 Hudson and 1939 Studebaker I can not find any information on them. Do you have the information on the amps they are rated for?

Also I saw that on this relay there is a fuse holder. What kind of fuse does go in? See picture 1, the tube on the right side.

[greg g]

Just guessing here but these relays were used for a lot of different applications on many different cars, head lamps, horns, fog lamps, Overdrives, etc. My guess is that since most headlamp circuits back then were fused for 30 Amps the the relay would be equal to that or slightly lower. low beams are 35 watts. So 35 + 35 = 70 watts load.

70 divided by 6 (for volts) = 11.6 Amps, add in some line resistance and you have 12 Amps or so. High beams are typically 55 Watts, so the same deal there (55 x 2 /6) equals 18 with line resistance make it 20 (+ or -) So you should be OK especially as they show that relay powering both low and highbeam elements.

[40P10touring sedan]

Edwin, I'd 1st check all the connections from the headlight switch to the bulb sockets and every place in between...check the wires for open insulation spots along the way where the bare wire could be corroded and lost some of the connectivity/flow. My '40 ply has very few connections; switch, fender block then bulb sockets. Mine doesn't run a relay so I'd doubt yours might either...with good connections and wiring you shouldn't need it, but that doesn't mean you can't add one for each circuit{high/low}.

Did you check your switch to make sure the contacts are good..if everything else is good the switch may be limiting the output via bad contacts....it could happen.

[greg g]

The fuse is set up in the power in from the battery. Look at the schematic. they show the wire from the starter providing the main feed for the relay. This is a bit strange, I would power that from the Battery side of the starting solenoid so it is hot without the key on. You would put the other end of the fuse holder on the incoming wire( should be 10 gauge for 6V) and that fuse holder would then connect the power in throught he fuse, as discussed above this would be either 20 amp at a minimum and 30 max. You could wire in a fuse holder for a modern blade style fuse and bypass that fuse holder.

This would take some load off your light switch. You wire the line from the head lamp to one of the other terminals (the relay is self grounding) this poweres the magnet. When you turn on the lights, the magnet energizes connecting the heavy line in and powers the other terminal to the stopm switch. So you are only powering the small load of holding in the magnet through the lamp switch, and the relay is taking the heavy power through the 30 amp fuse through the stomp switch and to the lamp. Or you can power two relays utilizing the terminals on the terminal block one for high and one for low. You can power both relays ( since only one would be hot at a time) with the same 10 gauge wire with 30 amp fuse) from the bat side of the starter solenoid.

[Jim Yergin]

Jim Yergin,

I've been looking for information on the amp rating of the auto-lite HRB-4201 relays. Other then they are used in 194-1941 Hudson and 1939 Studebaker I can not find any information on them. Do you have the information on the amps they are rated for?

Also I saw that on this relay there is a fuse holder. What kind of fuse does go in? See picture 1, the tube on the right side.

Edwin,

Sorry but I do not know the amp rating. In the two I have in my car, I am using the 14 amp fuses that came with each one. They have worked fine in my car for the last five years.

Jim Yergin

[DutchEdwin]

The information I have found so far is this adjustment manual on the relays. Missing is the section where it mentions the fuse rating.

HRB-4201 relay.pdf