Body Work - not a good day for the P15

[MattWalker]

The woman at Hagerty's did say most likely it would be an option to buy it without a salvage title since no major component was damaged. I would love to make it a daily driver, that was my intention from the start, I just never realized how much work those brakes were gonna be. My commute to work is about 8 miles and I don't have to take the highway so I think it could handle that?

Also I know the engine and transmission run fine, but I don't know really know how much longer they will stay that way. That was another reason for taking it to the mechanic besides to finish the brakes but also to determine the condition of the engine and tran.

As far as a daily driver, is there any cheap way to put A/C on one of these cars? Atlanta in July is brutal. Stinky old car is one thing, but hot stinky old car is another.

[steveplym]

Matt,

if you would like to just go out and buy another car that is fine, but you could buy that car back after getting the settlement of $4900. Take the money and ask if you can buy the car back WITHOUT A SALVAGE TITLE! They may sell it to you for $500 or so. That would be a heck of a parts car if you wish or take the $4400 and fix the car yourself. Much of it could be done for less money by yourself fixing only what bugs you. Heck, fix the mechanicals and make a daily driver out of it, rain, snow....who cares!

Darren

Not sure what the state laws are in GA, but you should be able to retain the salvage and keep a good title. In IL you can as long as it is 9 years or older. I'm with Darren, keep the car. I'm sure the cost to keep it will be low and you can have extra parts, or buy a parts car and fix the car you have now. Either way I wouldn't let it go, especially if you are going to get another car like it. You can always use it as a parts car.

Hope it all turns out well for you. This scenario is a reminder to me that I need to be sure to increase the agreed value on my car a little bit each year, especially when modifying things, or replacing things on it. Got to protect my investment.

[Eneto-55]

My guess is that they will insist that the title be converted to a salvage title. I think I may have already mentioned (in another thread) my experience with a 98 Neon I had for my daughter. The other driver was at fault in an accident, and even though I offered to take a smaller settlement, they refused to allow me to keep it w/o the salvage title transfer. I ended up letting them have it.

But they did let me take some speakers out of it, so maybe you could get the radio, and some parts. As was already said, even if you can't get it with the clean title, it would be a great parts car, if the price is right.

The thing is, if you let them keep it, the insurance company is NOT required to transfer it to a salvage title (at least this is my understanding of the law here in Ohio), and they'll probably turn around and resell it. (The law on this is pretty involved, so if I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.)

One other question: Isn't it the insurance company that is liable to pay that would determine the damage value at which it would be considered totalled?

Neto

Edited to add: I was writing this while your other posts were entered, so I see that at least in some states the laws on salvage titles are easier to get along with than they are here in Ohio.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Eneto-55
addition

[Plymouthy Adams]

I went through a GA salvage title procedure with a car my cousin gave me that had so little damage it was laughable..the 9 year law does not apply..it is 1985 and newer in GA at this time..a 1940's car will never get a Georgia title..as GA did not title cars till 1962 so don't even waste your time or breath asking to transfer a car that has a title from another state to a GA title, will not happen...to obtain a slavage title I had to get an inspection by an authorized GA inspection station, pay an fee that was quite high for the inpsection might I ad and then send off the paperwork for title. Further I had bought a parts car as it was cheaper to get the grille bumper cover and hood (hood was repairable) and in doing that, I had to surrender the title to the parts car and make that donor an official unsalavagable vehicle by registering its VIN and title number. It can be a headache..

[desoto1939]

I just thought that the towing companies insurance should be paying the claim. The towing compnay was neglegent and their company should be the first party to be paying for the damages not your company, Hagerty.

Do not settle the claim. Keep working the issue and see how mush you get from them. Keep pushing the claim to its fullest.

This also brings up a good point we all should check with our own antique cariers to see were the break off point is for a payout and when they demternine they willnot repair the car.

Also I would suggest that we all look at the current coverages that we all have an suggest that we start to get a high replacment cost becasue the price of parts and repairs is now go througth the roof.

Just my two cents.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[james49ply]

from what I saw of the pictures, KEEP IT, you woun't find one as good for the repair costs. keep an eye out for the parts you need and repair it yourself. A/C, I plan on doing mine soon as it gets brutal in Florida summer heat and rain, Vintage air, Classic auto air, and there are others, about $1500.00 for everything? I haven't found one that has the engine brakets for the compressor but there are many on this site that have installed a/c and can help you. If you keep it and install ac, get a unit that has heat as part of the package, that way you will have defrosted ducts and the system will very much duplicate the modrn systems of today.

[desoto1939]

I just call my Antique carrier Grundy Worlwide. My 39 Desoto is covered upto 17500. This is the amount that they will paymout on a claim. They do not have any 70% structure like hagerty is trying to use in your case.

So if the car has 6999.00 worth of damage this is what they will pay up to the 7000 amount as per your policy that you purchased..

Call your insuracne carrier to check on how they handle the coverage.

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[DCurrent]

My guess is that they will insist that the title be converted to a salvage title. I think I may have already mentioned (in another thread) my experience with a 98 Neon I had for my daughter. The other driver was at fault in an accident, and even though I offered to take a smaller settlement, they refused to allow me to keep it w/o the salvage title transfer. I ended up letting them have it.

But they did let me take some speakers out of it, so maybe you could get the radio, and some parts. As was already said, even if you can't get it with the clean title, it would be a great parts car, if the price is right.

The thing is, if you let them keep it, the insurance company is NOT required to transfer it to a salvage title (at least this is my understanding of the law here in Ohio), and they'll probably turn around and resell it. (The law on this is pretty involved, so if I'm wrong here, someone please correct me.)

One other question: Isn't it the insurance company that is liable to pay that would determine the damage value at which it would be considered totalled?

Neto

Edited to add: I was writing this while your other posts were entered, so I see that at least in some states the laws on salvage titles are easier to get along with than they are here in Ohio.

First of all insurance companies all have different policies. Some will work with you and some just work through the claims. It helps to have a good agent that is personnal with you. Talk with them about family or hobbies when making a payment or changing up your policy. Everyone can relate to old cars. It could pay off at a later date. If you just mail in your payment your just another claim.

There are believe it or not still ways to get around salvage titles. For instance this car may or maynot total out at $4,900. If there is no loan on the vehicle, it is your right to that check. Now if you settle with the insurance company for $4,800 repair... it isn't totaled. You can take the check for $4,800 and get a clear titled car. Some conditions of insurance compnaies will not allow the vehicle to return to the original owner without a salvage title that bears problems such as sevear water damage, mechanical damage, fire damage, or anything that doesn't allow it to be just driven away.

Typically a insurance company will work with you if your polite and patient. I'm going to run myself out of business for discussing this, but in order to walk away with a clear title and the $4,800 check you have to get the $ amount down on the estimate. If the vehicle has a $7,000 repair estimate tell the adjuster or estimater parts that you are willing to live with. The $200 dent in the grill. I can live with that. The $250 scratch in the render. I can live with that. The $400 hood ordament. I can live with that. You get the point!

Another thing.... Most of the dollar amount of a repaired wreck will be in the refinish time. You can agree with the Insurance Company that you only want the parts in primer and not painted. Some body shops will do this in order to save your deductible, or they will not order and install a part such as a mirror. Has anyone priced a heated electric mirror lately. They can reach upwards of $700. NO JOKE!!

Well now I have to find another occupation.

Darren

[MattWalker]

appraisal for the repairs came in at 4500 which included an NOS grill for 100 bucks? Is that right?

Anyways so the way it works is they offered me to take the check for that amount and in so doing, they are not responsible for anything after that. OR do a "tear down" which involves a shop looking for hidden damage. In the event there is some then appraiser comes back and inspects and adjusts the quote. In the event it is totaled(I'm 400 bucks away,70% of insured value) then the full insured amount is paid out.

So I went with the tear down since I didn't want to get into situation where there was more to the repairs then it seemed. Also the shop I have it at initially quoted me 6k so it should be interesting to see the differences reconciled between the two.

Good move, bad move? Apparently even if the car gets totaled and I buy it back from them for salvage value(not sure what that may be) then at least in GA, you can get a "rebuildable vehicle title" since no major component was damaged on it and after repairs but before paint you can get an inspection and a new clean title.

[BobT-47P15]

Your last post sounds pretty right in most ways.

Not sure you can get a N O S grille complete for $100 though.

Where you gonna get it?? Sometimes complete ones come up on

ebay. Prices usually vary.

Here's a used one with some dings listed at $200 buy it now.

Here's a set of bars with no backing piece.........$390 buy it now.

Claims it to be N O S.

Edited March 15, 2012 by BobT-47P15

[Plymouthy Adams]

appraisal for the repairs came in at 4500 which included an NOS grill for 100 bucks? Is that right?

Anyways so the way it works is they offered me to take the check for that amount and in so doing, they are not responsible for anything after that. OR do a "tear down" which involves a shop looking for hidden damage. In the event there is some then appraiser comes back and inspects and adjusts the quote. In the event it is totaled(I'm 400 bucks away,70% of insured value) then the full insured amount is paid out.

So I went with the tear down since I didn't want to get into situation where there was more to the repairs then it seemed. Also the shop I have it at initially quoted me 6k so it should be interesting to see the differences reconciled between the two.

Good move, bad move? Apparently even if the car gets totaled and I buy it back from them for salvage value(not sure what that may be) then at least in GA, you can get a "rebuildable vehicle title" since no major component was damaged on it and after repairs but before paint you can get an inspection and a new clean title.

NO...NO....NO.....consider...the cheapest grille panel is about 250.00 if and when you can find one..the average price for used stainless trim..varies..some will sell the small thin strips at about 30.00 a set at the low end..the larger bars go for about the same but may need the center clip..the clip also varies in price..if you were to get the stuff off e-bay at listed price/buy it now..odds are your grille in going to run in the neighborhood of 550.00...grille half on e-bay now for 299.00 still that does not include the backpanel..finding a complete front assembly on a parts car is going to be your best way out and even at that there will be need for repairs to broken studs due to rust, rusted panel sections and of course maybe a ding or two to knock out and then the over all sandblast prime and paint of the panel..so where you may save a bit in cost, labor (your time) is still going to be a few hours minimum. One thing you may want to tell the adjuster, this is not plastic trim, real metal was used in the making of this car. They will argue they are not in the parts business should you ask them to find one at that ridiculus price..you can send them links to the e-bay to support your need to bump up the cost of replacement..it is an acceptable means of aquirement of parts in todays old car world.

[MattWalker]

You are right, his was based on the skinny bars only, not the whole grill. So that is going to total the car, good or bad.

Thanks for the help.

[Plymouthy Adams]

that is bogus BS on the car being totaled..to qualify that statement...IF you are doing the repairs yourself it can be done at a fraction of that cost hands down case closed. The biggest single factor in the price is the going rate on collision labor, panel avaialbility, paint and such for the Atlanta area..high dollar overhead for on the average mediocre repair/paint work. Suggest you take the highest offer from the insurance co. Invest your own time and resources to the gathering/replacement of parts and when ready, find a painter from a local car club to shoot the car at fair market rate based on your repair work, prep and suppling the paint supplies. I'm retiring..bring me the car and the 4500.00 lol..in all seriouness..you can repair that car easily for that money..I have cars that with all work involved including modern running gear, tires, aligment, new upholestry/interior and new paint in and out just come to that figure including original purchase price of the car..one more time though...you have to be willing able and caplable to do the work to get out at that price though...only other thing I can think of is that the car was underinsured from the get go and the cut off for no return is less than adequate..BUT..at the same token if the car was not in a 1 or 2 condition at time of coverage, you would never get the higher value needed as it was..so question remains..was the car as insured equal to the car you are shooting for after the repair work..you need to be honest and reasonable here..

[Young Ed]

Tim brings up a good point and one that has worried me at times. My p15 is 1/2 old paint and 1/2 primer. So if I crashed it(again) so how would any bodyshop return it to that state?

[desoto1939]

I think we all are lerning amajor lesson becasue of the mishaps of another member and I feel terrible about what has happened.

I would suggest that evenone take pictures of their antique car/truck or what ever. Inside and out and engine compartment. Make two copies of the pictures.

Then get your insurace companies rates and definately increase the value on your car, etc and send the pictures along with the necessary paperwork.

Go for the highest amopunt that you can afford. But this insuracne is very cheap compared to our regular car insuance.

Go for the most coverage for bodily injury and for under insured and unisured motorist 100/300K.

Send the money that you think they will cover the car for. If they accept the check then you have more coverage. If they reject then you can ask them for an fair estimate on their end so you both can agree on the value.

All in All we need to keep the value of the cars going up each year. Also ask if their company automatically increases the value based onthe current trends inthe hobby. I know my ins goes up every year and the value goes up also.

Lets hope no-one else has this issue. Lets all learn from each other Also inquire about the lose ratio if they have a 70% or a percentage to value to declare if it is a totaled car.

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[DCurrent]

appraisal for the repairs came in at 4500 which included an NOS grill for 100 bucks? Is that right?

Anyways so the way it works is they offered me to take the check for that amount and in so doing, they are not responsible for anything after that. OR do a "tear down" which involves a shop looking for hidden damage. In the event there is some then appraiser comes back and inspects and adjusts the quote. In the event it is totaled(I'm 400 bucks away,70% of insured value) then the full insured amount is paid out.

So I went with the tear down since I didn't want to get into situation where there was more to the repairs then it seemed. Also the shop I have it at initially quoted me 6k so it should be interesting to see the differences reconciled between the two.

Good move, bad move? Apparently even if the car gets totaled and I buy it back from them for salvage value(not sure what that may be) then at least in GA, you can get a "rebuildable vehicle title" since no major component was damaged on it and after repairs but before paint you can get an inspection and a new clean title.

Matt,

I would not have opted to have the body shop tear the car down to look for additional damage. First off they will charge you for the tear down. That's money out of the $4,500. Secondly they will not be all that carfull about tearing it down. They will probably break bolts that could have been saved, and chances are they may misplace them. If you are to fix the car yourself it would be nice to have a clue where the proper bolts go in the proper holes

.

I would tell the shop to hold off if its not too late. Make your case to the insurance co. about how the cost of the grille will be more. Talk the estimate up to $4,900 and take the check!!!! It will not total the car out at that amount. Accept the fact that they will not be held liable anyway due to the age of the vehicle anyhow. Lastly if there is additional damage it would have totaled the car and you would be out a vehicle that was underinsured.

Darren

[desoto1939]

I have been following this posting. The question that is stillon the table is where is the insurance claim from the towing companies insurance plan. I hear that you are getting a payout from your antuique car insurance company. This should only be happening if you ran the car into the truck while you wer driving the car.

The towing compnay is the one that is totally in the blame and their compnay should be footing the bill to have the car repaired not your antique car plan.

Hold off on taking the money go after the towing company and have them repair the car to your liking. Think about this perform you react.

Rich Hartung

[Niel Hoback]

Rich is right. Why should your insurance company pay for damages the tow company did? They did it, they gotta pay for it!

[Young Ed]

Right but I thought the idea was to let your ins company do the fighting for you?

[MattWalker]

They will pay for it. Once my insurance company pays me they are going to turn around and get the money out of them. This all started because the tow truck company wanted to not file a claim and fix it themselves which his guy quoted 1500 bucks which sounded fishy. It is a little odd that my insured value comes into play though, it would seem irrelevant since it is on them.

What I don't get is why nobody thinks I shouldn't just walk away. I'm sure, after looking around, that I can get a car in very god shape for 7k. I paid 5700 for the one I have now 6 months ago. It's not like this was my grandfather's car or something, in fact I know very little about it(other than the brakes). I just saw one in great shape sold in Seattle for around 6k.

I asked the appraiser to rate my car and he said it was a B- and would take 12k in body work(before the damage) to get it to show quality. He showed me quite a few spots where there was bondo that I had not noticed. Now I don't want a show car but this might be an opportunity to get one a little less banged up.

On top of that I might be able to get this car for salvage value as a parts car to use on the next one. And maybe, just maybe I can fix this one AND use the money to buy another one and have two decent old cars if I can somehow trick my wife into letting me do that.

[faucet47custom]

Matt, the last paragraph is exactly where I would be looking. From the pics you posted the damage is very minor and would be pretty easily fixed or replaced with a little work and searching on your part. Plus have some money left for upgrades or another car

[desoto1939]

I would go out an get three estimates to fix the car by independent shops. Then present this to the towing company insurance and then get the amount from them or have the towing company pay the money to you directly.

This is the towing company fault and haggerty should not be paying the claim even if they are going after them after the claim has been closed. You are the owner so get the car fixed to your liking do not back down. They both want to settle as fast as possible. It is only settled when you sign on the claim form that you accept their offer. Push the towing company real hard they screwed up and now they want to get off as cheap as possible.

rich hartung

[DCurrent]

I have been following this posting. The question that is stillon the table is where is the insurance claim from the towing companies insurance plan. I hear that you are getting a payout from your antuique car insurance company. This should only be happening if you ran the car into the truck while you wer driving the car.

The towing compnay is the one that is totally in the blame and their compnay should be footing the bill to have the car repaired not your antique car plan.

Hold off on taking the money go after the towing company and have them repair the car to your liking. Think about this perform you react.

Rich Hartung

In esence you are correct, but the tow truck insurance co. probably has no idea of the value of his vehicle or how to perform a correct estimate of repair. He wants his insurance to fight for him. Sates have different protocals, but generally they all work the same. His insurance company will deal with the tow truck company. One way or another they will get their money back that was his claim.

Darren

[MattWalker]

So the car was officially totaled at $4900 in repairs. The salvage bid came in at 2k so I will get a check for 5k and I can keep the car. Now I can take my time and fix the car up. I think that was the right thing to do according to most of you guys. The alternative was 7k and no car. I have about 6500 in the car so now my cost basis is basically reduced to 1500. If I can fix it up for a couple grand or so I'm ahead.

Also the car DOES NOT have a salvage title and is still insured with Hagerty for 2k which means I get a refund on part of my premium which is odd. I can up the insured value after it is fixed. Apparently GA law allows no salvage title if no major component of the car is damaged and is still driveable.

Now I need to start finding the parts to put this car back together myself. Hood, bumper guards, grill... So in summary I think it all turned out ok.

[DCurrent]

So the car was officially totaled at $4900 in repairs. The salvage bid came in at 2k so I will get a check for 5k and I can keep the car. Now I can take my time and fix the car up. I think that was the right thing to do according to most of you guys. The alternative was 7k and no car. I have about 6500 in the car so now my cost basis is basically reduced to 1500. If I can fix it up for a couple grand or so I'm ahead.

Also the car DOES NOT have a salvage title and is still insured with Hagerty for 2k which means I get a refund on part of my premium which is odd. I can up the insured value after it is fixed. Apparently GA law allows no salvage title if no major component of the car is damaged and is still driveable.

Now I need to start finding the parts to put this car back together myself. Hood, bumper guards, grill... So in summary I think it all turned out ok.

Good for you! I think you made out to be the winner. Although your car is damaged it can be fixed and it isn't the end of the world! With a little bit of work and time it'll be as good if not better than before. Besides, you will learn more about your car this way! It can be rewarding if you think about it in that aspect. Additionaly this forum is behind you %100!!

Darren