Engine oil

[mechresto]

As many of you know, most modern oils can not be used in the older engines due to the reduction and in some cases the elimination of zddp (zinc) in their formulations due to new car catalytic converter requirements.

I've been on the hunt for a replacement oil for not only my vehicles but for that of my customers. Below is the response from Castrol, (one of the few I recieved) I will be switching over in my shop as from what I can see this looks to be "what the doctor ordered"

Ticket #9352

Ticket: Inquiry on oil to use on flat tapped engines

Status:Emailed

Company: Castrol

Contact: Not Provided

Phone:

Address:Not Provided

Detail Description:

Sat 21/01/2012/5:29 AM EST/ mechanicalrestoration@gmail.com (email)

I run a small repair shop with the focus on pre 1970 auto and farm tractors, Modern oils are no longer formulated for flat tappet engines so we are forced to use additives to reduce wear (zinc) Ive heard that syntec 20-50 is an option, is this true? will it work for example in the flathead chrysler 6, the flathead ford V8?

I'm experimenting with it in my 1971 volkswagon beetle, it seems to be handling the heat of the aircooled engine however i'm unsure of the antiwear characteristics, any insight?

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Problem Resolution:

Tue 24/01/2012/11:45 AM EST/ IC - Castrol Representative-

Thank you for contacting Castrol.

Classic cars with flat tappet cam engines represent a special case in regards to engine oil lubrication. These engines have valve train configurations that require elevated levels of zddp (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) anti-wear for proper protection of the flat tappet camshaft and its lifters. Insufficient concentration of zddp will lead to premature wear and failure of the camshaft and lifters. Current GF-4 and GF-5 fuel economy grade engine oils are designed for extended life of the catalytic convertors in modern passenger cars and have industry mandated limitations on the amount of sulfur and phosphorus within the oil.

Castrol SYNTEC 20W-50 classic car formulation has been replaced by Castrol with SYNTEC Power Technology 5W-50 viscosity grade. The 5W-50 grade has also been specially formulated for classic car use and has adopted the 20W-50 claims - designed for use in classic cars. The 5W-50 formulation contains more zinc additives than the 20W-50 and will also enhance start up ability in cold temperatures as well as enable better fuel economy.*

*Compared to SAE 20W-50.

Castrol always recommends following the guidelines of the original engine manufacturer for the recommended grade and API specific to your application. This information can be found in the vehicles owner's manual or by contacting the manufacturer directly.

Castrol Consumer Relations

[JBNeal]

Castrol CR is recommending 5W-50 over 20W-50...then recommends following the oem guidelines...hmmmmm

[Dave72dt]

Of course they have an oil to meet your needs. They're in the businjess of selling oil. Just like every car dealership has the perfect car for you. those old cars, trucks and tractor engines needed rebuidling much more frequently than the modern engines when using the oils recommended by the manufacturers so I'm going with modern oils. Besides, with the limited usage most of those vehicles will receive, in reality, how much extra wear will actually occur.

[greg g]

The wear most people are expereincing is with after market (off shore metal)and high performance cams and flat tappet engines running high Rpm, and very stiff valve springs. Non of this things is a worthy concern in a low speed engine with real american steel, especially with squishy valve springs typical of low compression long stroke engines.

Also no one has satisfactorily answered the question regarding how much zddp was in the oil in the late 40's. Was there any, when it was introduced as a friction modifier, and what oils had it. My guess is that the typical single weigh non detergent oil in the lates 40's and early 50's was basically composed of oil, with either no additives of a package of very limited additives. That being the case unless it can be factually controverted, most modern oil, (even the stuff in the dollar store) is probably superior in every way to the oils of the era.

[MBF]

There was an article in a publication a short time ago (Busted Knuckles?)addressing the reduction of ZDDP in today's oils. It said that there has been a reduction in ZDDP to eliminate damage to catalytic converters, but the amount left is still in excess of what was used when these engines were designed and built. A local race engine builder requires an additive for newly rebuilt engines (race and street) for the break in period to run in the cam, and then recommends using a good quality multi viscosity oil from that point on. Just something elst to be confused about. Mike

Edited January 25, 2012 by MBFowler

[Merle Coggins]

I've been using Amsoill products for many years and I use their AMO oil in my truck. They also have a 20W-50 version (ARO)

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motor Oil is specially formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. By incorporating high-quality synthetic base

stocks and a superior high-zinc additive package, AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil exceeds the needs of large and small gasoline or diesel engines in cars, motorcycles, trucks, motor homes, maintenance equipment, heavy equipment, street rods and marine applications. It is ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use. AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil resists oxidation, neutralizes acids, inhibits corrosion, reduces wear and protects against deposits. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oil for convenience and trouble-free operation.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Merle Coggins

[dmulhall]

I think years ago we had the same discussion and alot of guys have had good luck with shell rotella T 15w40

[Todd B]

When I had my semi motor rebuilt he put 30w oil in it. After a year a freind was an AMSOIL dealer so he said I should change. I did and my truck looked like an old panhead Harley. There was oil dripping everywhere. I changed back to 30w and most of the leaks stopped.

My 2 cents

Todd B

[1950 Special Deluxe]

For no good reason, I am going to stay with straight 30w in both of my Flatheads(hopefully the 2nd one will run). I did buy Amsoil for the rear end and transmission.

[Don Coatney]

As many of you know, most modern oils can not be used in the older engines due to the reduction and in some cases the elimination of zddp (zinc)

I am not sure where you got the information that modern oils will not work in older engines. What was your source for this information? I do not believe it. I suggest you do a forum search for zddp and then do a forum search for zinc. This issue has been discussed many times.

[70rtse440]

Here's what I'm switching over to http://www.penngrade1.com/ They have a great tech support will answer any of your questions.

I shopped around and found this place to be the cheapest so far. Just rebuilt a 383 and will be using the break in oil first than switching to their 20/50.

http://www.littlepowershop.net/servlet/Categories.

my 1/2cent

Mark

[Rusty O'Toole]

They only added the zinc in 1951 after a rash of cam and lifter troubles in the first OHV V8s especially Studebaker and Chrysler.

The old flatheads had light weight valve trains and light valve springs and were more or less immune to cam and lifter wear, except after very high mileages.

I'm just saying, if you don't have a pushrod OHV engine you probably don't have anything to worry about. Either overhead cam, or underhead cam, engines should be OK.

[nj viking]

At one time in my business I had a pretty considerable fleet of vehicles and equipment. Years ago my mechanic switched over to 15-40 for everything. He basically said he was tired of having a dozen different types of oil in the shop. It goes in everything from the D6 to the lawn mower and everything in between. Thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of miles later and no problems.