D25 Engine Rebuild thread

[Plymouthy Adams]

A gift it was. Are you in need of a gift?

you just sent me a gift..and it was very much appreciated..however I care not to hog it all so I think you should send the used oil and gunk to somebody special and deserving..maybe rockwood or rusty...

[greg g]

Hey chris, any updates, it almost spring here, hardly any frost left in the ground.

[55 Fargo]

Hey chris, any updates, it almost spring here, hardly any frost left in the ground.

Although the prairie region of Western Canada, from the Manitoba/Ontario border, west a 1000 miles to the rockys in Alberta, has had a mild winter.

But early spring up here is maybe March 15th to April 1st, heck the trees dont leaf out until May up here. Alberta isa little milder than Manitoba, but our weather is much like Fargo ND, so nothing like Upstate NY, which is like the Niagra region of Ontario, quite a bit milder......

[bamfordsgarage]

Good morning all, and my apologies for not updating this thread long ago. My Beloved and I were out of town a few days for a wedding followed by a winter break in California. Clearly the car did not get back together in time for a run to the Lethbridge, AB swap meet on February 11, but Jerry and I are still on track to leave for the north about March 14. Two weeks yesterday.

Unfortunately, the R-7 overdrive will not be in the car — although the flange break could be repaired ($264 estimate) the innards were poor. Team D25 is still in the slow lane for the time being.

We’re putting the engine back in the car this morning. With luck there will be starting, running, a test drive and much jubilation by nightfall. Otherwise it will be early next week and Jerry and I are making a run to Vancouver Friday-Sunday to pick up a bunch of parts for his 1923 Packard project.

I have 28 selected photos to upload this morning, which means six posts in quick succession. I would appreciate anyone planning to comment to please wait ‘til they’re all up so as to keep these six posts in sequence. Thank you.

Photos, batch 1: My replacement handbrake cable and period clamps arrived some time ago from Young Ed. Rusty, dirty and greasy — just the way I like ‘em; Fuel pump overhaul kit from Then-N-Now in MA, with good documentation and very complete. Nice; As my pump was new (NORS) I only used the diaphragms from the overhaul kit. Kind of a waste, should have tried to buy only these rubber bits; Keeping track of fasteners and other small parts; IKEA collander is an ideal way wash small parts vigorously without losing any.

Edited March 1, 2012 by bamfordsgarage

[bamfordsgarage]

Photos batch 2: Rod bearings are 0.010 undersize and all within 0.001-0.0015 clearance (factory spec 0.0005-0.0025; Top ring side clearance is 0.0025 (factory spec 0.0025-0.004); Ring gaps are over-large at 0.024ish, vs factory spec 0.007-0.015 or 0.010-0.020 depending on the book; I cold-set the exhaust valves at 0.014; And the intakes at 0.011. If they run quiet I don’t plan to do a hot re-check — seems that many folks here have had good results with cold settings like these.

[bamfordsgarage]

I have long been on an unsuccessful quest for the leak-proof Model T engine. Those splash-lube critters sure like to mark their territory! Anyway I thought I would try some similar techniques on the Dodge engine, particularly the oil pan.

Photos, batch 3: Started by evening out the oil pan flange particcularly at the bolt holes; Right Stuff sealant in the curves (this is not silicone, much better and not nearly so prone to losing any bits that squeeze out of a joint); Cork gasket wants to extend out of the curve at each end; Compressing the cork into the curve as the sealant cures overnight; Next step is glueing the side gaskets on the flanges with Right Stuff.

[bamfordsgarage]

Photos, batch 4, gasketing continued: Clamping the gasket side to a flat surface for overnight curing. Result is a dead flat sealing surface to mate with the crankcase; A multitude of tiny rare-earth magnet to capture stray iron & steel particles; Greasing the crankcase side of the gasket to allow future removal; And then Right Stuff on the crankcase side before bolting up the pan; Similiar procedure used on the timing chain cover.

[bamfordsgarage]

Photos, batch 5: Pressing on the crank gear; What’s wrong with this photo?; Previous timing chain had about 11/16” play side to side; Sealing the chain cover bolts that penetrate the water jacket (thanks, Joe); Sealing the head bolt holes. I hope.

[bamfordsgarage]

Photos, batch 6, final: There was some pitting on the exhaust manifold and block mating surfaces — while this is unlikely to be any real problem, I used some 1,000F stove sealant just in case; Almost done LH; Almost done RH.

Out to the workshop!

[Young Ed]

Looks great. I've been waiting patiently to see the update with the parts I sent. Glad you are happy with them.

[Don Coatney]

collander is an ideal way wash small parts vigorously without losing any.

Problem is finding an aluminum collander in this plastic world we live in is not easy. Also a refrigerator magnet works well for keeping metal parts in order.[/i]

Cork gasket wants to extend out of the curve at each end; Compressing the cork into the curve as the sealant cures overnight;

I used grease only on both sides of the end cork gaskets. I believe they are supposed to slide in the grooves and seek there own final resting place. I have removed my oil pan 2-3 times and I did not have to replace the gaskets by using the grease on one side only trick.

Photos, batch 5: Pressing on the crank gear; What’s wrong with this photo?;

I thought you were working on a Mopar engine.

Sealing the head bolt holes. I hope.

When using pipe dope the sealent should always go on the male threads, not the female threads.

...

[bamfordsgarage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamfordsgarage

Photos, batch 5: Pressing on the crank gear; What’s wrong with this photo?;

I thought you were working on a Mopar engine.

Sealing the head bolt holes. I hope.

When using pipe dope the sealent should always go on the male threads, not the female threads.

...

_ _ _ _ _ _

It's a Mopar D25, same one all along. Look again...

Hmmm... is dope on both male and female threads likely to be a problem?

[wallytoo]

no timing chain oiler in that photo.

[Don Coatney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamfordsgarage

Photos, batch 5: Pressing on the crank gear; What’s wrong with this photo?;

I thought you were working on a Mopar engine.

Sealing the head bolt holes. I hope.

When using pipe dope the sealent should always go on the male threads, not the female threads.

...

_ _ _ _ _ _

It's a Mopar D25, same one all along. Look again...

Hmmm... is dope on both male and female threads likely to be a problem?

Sorry I thought the front main bearing cap looked small I see it is a Mopar engine now. So what is wrong? I installed my front cover before installing the timing gear but I dont remember why.

Greasing both the male and female should not hurt.

[greg g]

as per post 213, did you make arrangements for the timing chain oiler?

[bamfordsgarage]

Wally got it.

And yes, I pulled the cam gear and installed the oiler right after that photo. There was discussion here recently about the oiler tube and how many appeared to simply have a squashed end to reduce oil flow. The one on this engine has something a little more elaborate, and probably more repeatable from one piece to the next

[wallytoo]

Wally got it.

even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[Joe Flanagan]

What a blast. I can't wait till you run it.

[james curl]

I hope you are not going to go and paint it up all pretty and spoil the character of your car.

[bamfordsgarage]

Thanks Joe, but I'm afraid we're both going to have to wait a few more days. The engine is back in the hole but we ran out of time for today and Jerry and I need to make a quick run to Vancouver this weekend.

No worries James. We are on exactly the same page. My goal is to keep the engine looking just as original and woebegone as the rest of the car. I figure not painting the engine is saving me an easy $15-25K or more (body work to match, chrome to match, paint to match, interior to match, indoor storage...)

A couple weeks ago Rockwood asked where I bought my new pilot bushing, and I thanked him for reminding me to replace this important component. Then I promptly forgot all about it until we were bolting together the clutch this morning. Crap. A call to my very friendly and helpful bearing supply house revealed they had the specs (0.880 long, 0.752 ID and 0.941 OD) but no current part number and definitely none in stock. Fortunately they did have a stock oilite bronze bushing 2x0.750x1.000 for $4.65 that I could chuck in the lathe and make one in no time. I left the ID at 0.750 because there was a few thousandths wear on the pilot shaft and the clearance felt just fine.

The lathe was put to good use on two other jobs today — turning a length of broom handle into a dandy clutch alignment tool and taking 0.150 off the lower OD of the replacement rear motor mount rubbers to fit the original metal pieces. (PatS, I demand a full refund of the absolutely nothing you charged for these brand new motor mounts plus shipping!)

[Don Coatney]

Looks like the length is different for a short block bushing. Are all Caniadian long block engine crankshafts drilled for fluid drive?

[bamfordsgarage]

Looks like the length is different for a short block bushing. Are all Caniadian long block engine crankshafts drilled for fluid drive?

The bushing we cut out of there was actually closer to 1.2" long (and worn 0.090 inside!), the one I made is just over an inch in length.

I don't know how the cranks are different if they are drilled for Fluid Drive. If it helps, the hole for the pilot bushing was maybe 2.5" deep.

[bamfordsgarage]

Not there yet, dang it — hoped to be running this afternoon but ran into a nasty and perplexing coolant leak...

Installed the same water pump back on the same block with a new gasket and Permatex gasket shellac both sides. Upon filling the radiator there was a heavy coolant leak of about 2-3 drops/second. See Photo 1 — at first it was not clear if the leak was at the block/head joint or the block/pump joint, so we blew the coolant out with an air gun and the green re-appeared immediately at the pump/block joint. It appears to be originating at the driver's side but we are not certain of this.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump and block faces, or gasket (Photos 2 & 3), and the three mounting bolts were tight. My only strategy at this point is to carefully reassemble, perhaps using Right Stuff instead of Permatex, and hope it doesn't leak.

Can anyone offer another explanation besides poor assembly for this leak? I sure don't want to take the pump off again tomorrow because I missed something important. Thanks.

Photos: Big leak at water pump; Front of block looks OK; So does the water pump, new gasket just like the old; One of the many reasons I will never restore this car; Always nice to have a helper topside to pass me tools and hold the light. Also note 1924-vintage gas line/exhaust manifold heat shield bolted to inner fender.

[55 Fargo]

I dunno Chris, sometimes the darndest things happen, with this area.

I would wire wheel and clean up both surfaces and go for it again, and use thread sealnt on the bolts.

This was nota case of a shaft seal leaking is it?

Instal anothergasket, and get her runnin.......

[PatS....]

I second the use of plumbers thread sealant on the threads.