wiring problem

[azmichael1]

I recenlty installed a new regulator, battery and rebuilt generator and did the polarization thing...........but still no recharge of battery. when I attached a jumper wire from the generator field post to ground to do the ammeter pegging test, the jumper wire started smokin'........I then disconnected the fan belt,turned the ignition on and the generator "motored"...........I soon discovered that the generator when free of the fan belt would "motor any time both battery terminals were connected, even with the key off completely. Since the ignition wires in to the middle post of the soleoid,I'm thinking the solenoid is shot and is allowing voltage to the generator at all times without the assistance (or control) of the ignition.Can anyone with this previous problem confirm or dispute this for me ? ANY help would be very much appreciated.

Also if anyone could verify for me what wires go where on the solenoid (3 post) I should probably make sure that is correct as well.

Thanks!

Mike

'48 P-5 Deluxe

Apache Junction, Arizona

[Don Coatney]

Is this the 9th thread you have started with the same problem?

[azmichael1]

Don :

Yes, I have inquired about DIFFERENT phases of this problem........but never about the smoking wire or motoring generator without the key even on that this posting is about......... or about the solenoid maybe being bad..... these are new symptoms of the same problem that still remains unsolved......therefore I turn to those wiser than I which happens to be fellow enthusiasts here on Plymouth Owners Club, where those that choose to respond, may do so and when the problem is solved, I will no longer need to inquire on the same topic

Mike

[Don G 1947]

Is this the 9th thread you have started with the same problem?

I guess we all have the option of not reading them as opposed to making snarkey replies.

Don

[azmichael1]

Don G :

Thank you for your great response...........that will be invaluable in solving my electrical problem.

Have A Wonderful Thanksgiving !

Mike

[Tom Skinner]

azmichael1,

What might be more valueable - if I may be so bold, is if you got a service Manual and ran the diagnostics to run down your problem.

Or shall we hold your hand and march on down to mamby pamby land and wait for someone else to do it for you?

Tissue?

Seriously though taking the Generator off and having it bench tested would be advisable

Edited November 23, 2011 by Tom Skinner
Adding more

[azmichael1]

TOM:

Thank you for your great response..........it will be invaluable in correcting my electrical problem.

Have A Wonderful Thanksgiving

Mike

[azmichael1]

I am totally unable to understand what was so offensive in my message that it would cause such a degree of contempt .

Was it the part in the beginning where I attempted to clarify that the message was in regard to a totally different issue than previously posted ?

(and it was not my intent to repeatedly post the same thing)

Was it the part where I tried to explain what the problems were at this point? (which are beyond my level of expertise)

Was it the part where I refered to POC members as being wiser than I ?

( I thought that members were happy to share thier knowledge)

Was it the part where I stated that when I got the problem corrected I would not post regarding the matter again ?

All pretty offensive stuff I guess, I'll try to be more delicate

Mike

[Dodgeb4ya]

You must understand there are some old grumpy "My way or the freeway" type of forum police. I am getting kinda tired of this un-friendly type of attitude on this forum.

I wish it would end.

I'm here, as a lot of others to honestly help and answer any endless questions if I can, even if asked a dozen times-I can handle it. Some HA guys cannot. This forum is for fun and help and knowledge. Lets give and receive it!! Hard asses give it up!

[greg g]

The crux of the situation is that this board is run and paid for by one indicidual with the sometimes sparse donations from participants.

Each thread uses band width and chews up space on a server somewhere. So multiple threads on the same vehicle with basically the same issue, chew up that space and make it difficult to follow the input and then the end result. For someone who may have a similar situation doing a search, leads to fragments of an issure rather than the full picture.

So as has been mentioned by several folks on several occasions it makes more sense to to keep the issue to a single thread. It also helps folks who have responded to follow along to see if their suggestions have been considered and if they were helpful to your resolution.

So since April of 2010, you have about 12 or 13 threads relating to electrical issues, wiring, generator, regulator, 6 to 12 V conversion, that clould have been contained to one or two threads where it all could been handled and retrieved.

Just make is less bulky.

Hope that wasn't contentious. By the way while there are many members of the POC who are participant here, this is not a POC forum, though they do have one, it is not nearly as informative as this one, nor are the replies as frequent or as helpful. Keep in mind that the ignore button works in both directions.

Edited November 23, 2011 by greg g

[Dodgeb4ya]

New people join and ask the same old questions here. Round and round it goes. They are new to the forum and it takes a bit for them to figure it all out. Thats just the way it is. This forum, of all the ones I am a member of seems to have a select few who are a bit too snarkey! I love that term! Can't we all just be nice to one another as Rodney kinda said.

I don't ask for much in regards to info. I just like to give as I was told to do by my mama. I will have a nice bed in heaven.

[azmichael1]

Although my postings were in regard to electrical problems, the actual content of each was in regard to a different issue over a period of time as they arose .

If my total of 12 threads over a period of 19 months ( far less than one a month) is excessive , I will limit my communications and attempts to gain knowledge although I doubt very much that my amount is any greater than most on here.

It's interesting that I have received so many communications tonight but absolutely no response to any inquiries in my posting.............but I won't start a new thread

[bamfordsgarage]

...It's interesting that I have received so many communications tonight but absolutely no response to any inquiries in my posting...

I believe Tom Skinner posted a relevant and useful response... acquire a service manual and work through the diagnostics. And also to have the generator bench-tested.

[greg g]

Yea but is all about the juice.

Crux, (krucks) n, a puzzling or difficult problem, the central issue of an argument, an essential point in a discussion or debate

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is very much apparant that the questions asked about the problem have never acknowledged the answers given in way of tests and feedback to those who have tried to help. If you are trying to repair this by seat of the pants and without the use of the manual, making tests as outlined in the trouble shooting section and depending only on folks here for the silver bullet..odds are it will never happen..feedback will give those trying to assist information to draw from and apply to you apparent problem..but they can only come close to your problem when all test are made and the facts found are properly returned to the same thread so to have continunity..I dropped out of this on the ask for help 6 to 12 and the line from you that you could not find any information using the search feature...please..that was in my opinion a cheap shot at all prior contribitutors...

[azmichael1]

Tim :

Point well taken ,communication, after all is the key and I do appreciate all the help and information I have gotten here .

Mike

[Merle Coggins]

Is the bitch fest over now? Can we start helping the guy with his issue?

If your generator motors, as you explain it, than something is wired wrong or your "new" regulator is faulty. The regulator will only connect the armature to the battery once the generator starts outputing current. Here are a couple of pages from my truck shop manual. Read through it to better understand how the regulator works and how to test it.

Merle

[Robert Horne]

I recenlty installed a new regulator, battery and rebuilt generator and did the polarization thing...........but still no recharge of battery. when I attached a jumper wire from the generator field post to ground to do the ammeter pegging test, the jumper wire started smokin'........I then disconnected the fan belt,turned the ignition on and the generator "motored"...........I soon discovered that the generator when free of the fan belt would "motor any time both battery terminals were connected,

Thanks!

Mike

'48 P-5 Deluxe

Apache Junction, Arizona

Years ago I put a 12 volt generator and regulator on my 38 Coupe. After starting and running the engine, I turned off the engine, the generator "motored", turning the fan. The fix for my problem was that the ground on the voltage regulator was not grounded good, making the generator into an electric motor.

[azmichael1]

Merle :

Thanks for the informative information and manual page content.

I,m going to take the generator and voltage regulator in today for testing so that at ;least part of the problem may be pinpointed.

I'll read over the page copy and use the information from there as well.

Thanks !.............I really appreciate your help

Have a very pleasant Thanksgiving

Mike

[azmichael1]

Robert :

Thanks for that information. I am starting to realize how critical a good ground at the regulator is. Ill check that first thing this morning and maybe I won't have to take the generator and regulator in for testing today after all.

Thanks again for the great information

Have an excellent Thanksgiving .

Mike

[Don Coatney]

If you have not installed a ground strap from the engine to the body you should do so.

[azmichael1]

I do have a ground strap installed that goes from the engine to body.

I will check that today to make sure I have a solid connection.

Thanks for your help.

[BobT-47P15]

Sometimes taking things like the generator and regulator to a shop is the

best way to determine their condition. A good shop has the equipment and

knowledge of these items and can usually analyze them pretty quickly.

Yes, they may charge you a little something for their time....or they may

not. But, hopefully you should have more info on your problem when you

leave. If the item needs repair or replacement, they'll tell you....and

usually give an approximate repair cost. They will often answer at least

a few questions from us as a potential customer, which can be helpful.

Just my 5 cents worth....(used to be 2 cents before inflation).

[greg g]

I lost charge and electrical power to the car on our summer trip to Vermont, after checking the generator and regulator, fan belt, I found that the connections on the battery side terminal of the solenoid was just a bit loose. I removed and cleaned all the connections, and reinstalled and tightened the terminal nut and the problem went away.

Sometimes this stuff is really simple, but not obvious.

[azmichael1]

Bob T :

You're absolutely right. A shop with the proper testing equipment will be able to do a diagnosis in just a matter of minutes that would probably take me hours and probably still get it wrong. I'm going to check the regulator for a good strong ground as suggested and if that doesn't do the trick it's off to the generator shop.

Thanks for your very helpful input

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving

Mike