Feasibility of changing to a Fluid Drive?

[49Bseries]

I searched the forum and couldn't find any threads like this so here goes. How feasibile is it to change from a 4 speed floor mounted transmission to a fluid drive of the same? What would I need to convert? Just the bell housing and fluid drive unit? A different crank? Shifter? Floor cover? Carburator? Clutch pedals???? I am intrigued with adding fluid drive to my 1950, especially after seeing Merle's transmission. Is it too much trouble?

[Merle Coggins]

The best way to do it would be to buy a truck with Fluid drive and 4 speed (no, you can't have mine ) and swap the entire drive train, well maybe not the axle. As you suspect the bell housing is different along with the pedals. The crankshaft is different, with 8 holes on the flange instead of 4. The transmission has a much longer input shaft and throwout bearning sleeve. the added length moves the shift lever further rearward so your trans cover would have to be reworked. The other location should be marked on the cover. You could probably cut out the disc and weld it back into the other hole, or just use the one from the doner truck. And the carburator is different. It has a dashpot plunger in it, however I have mine mostly disabled so I don't know if you'd really need to change that. And don't forget that the drive shaft is shorter too.

Merle

[49Bseries]

Wow. Quite a bit of work...

[Dave72dt]

Wow. Quite a bit of work...

Less than a V8 engine swap or Volare suspension. The Fluid drive set -up is all bolt -in when you have the right parts.

[49Bseries]

Yes you are correct. I guess I was thinking about the difficulty of locating all of the components.

[John-T-53]

Hey, don't forget the fluid drive hood emblems too!

A 5 speed swap would be just about as much work, maybe a little less. I can't fully compare the two since I've never driven a fluid drive, but I really love my 5 speed w/ overdrive!

[moparmonkey]

Hey, don't forget the fluid drive hood emblems too!

A 5 speed swap would be just about as much work, maybe a little less. I can't fully compare the two since I've never driven a fluid drive, but I really love my 5 speed w/ overdrive!

The fluid drive option is pretty cool, I'd really like to get my fluid drive truck running to try it out.

But that said, I wouldn't spend the time to convert a truck to fluid drive. It will be a lot more practical to swap in an OD transmission given the gearing of these trucks and the low operating rpm's of the flathead 6. And from the sound of it, it might be easier to swap in a 5 speed than the fluid drive. It will certainly be easier to find the parts for the 5 speed swap.

[49Bseries]

Thanks to Dadsdream (Eric) I now have a great start to the fluid drive upgrade. The wife and I drove up to Indiana a couple of days ago and met Eric (a poster on this site) who just happened to have a complete 1950 chassis equipped with a fluid drive transmission. Seems he only needed the body and I needed everything else (or at least that is what I got). I ended up with the 4 speed fluid drive transmission, driveshaft, pedals, transmission cover, shift lever, etc - as well as a 25" spitfire engine equipped with what appears to be a 12 volt generator (green tag?) and a full flow filter assembly (the engine was obviously a replacement). The bonus was a pair of original fluid drive script for the 1950 (anyone have a template for drilling the holes in the hoods for these emblems?). I am not sure what I will be doing with the frame and engine but it came with a front bumper, radiator, spare tire carrier and two original wheels. The only questionable piece was the carb. I am not sure if the carb is for a fluid drive set up (does not look like yours Merle). Anyway, Eric was very helpful and it was great to meet him. His wife is happy some junk was removed from their yard and my wife is non too happy about the new "junk" in my yard. That deal never would have happened without this forum. I recently picked up some bumper guards, so I guess I am on a quest to fully option my truck. Now just to find the dual horn setup...

[Merle Coggins]

Good find. Especially the emblems which seem to be very hard to find. Does it have a syncro trans or are you going to have to double cluitch like me?

My carb is a B&B DTG1 which has a built in dash pot. However I have mine adjusted so that is doesn't work and don't have any adverse effects. Being that yours is a 25" engine I wouldn't be supprised that it has a different carb.

Good luck on your conversion. I'll attempt to save you a struggle and advise that you drop your fuel tank and remove the cross member that runs behind the trans. You'll find that you'll need that clearance during install.

Merle

[49Bseries]

Thanks for the advice Merle. I will definitely do that. The carb is a Carter but has an automatic choke on it. I will be double clutching it according to the position of the filler plug. Merle you would not happen to have a template or measurements for the emblem holes would you? Some other goodies: a nice set of helper springs which I am now considering using on mine and a flashlight holder still on the steering column:D. The engine appears to have the serial C53-62 stamped on the pad. I don't know much about the 25 inch long engines but it is evident where they modified the mounting area and there is no place to mount the radiator. Should I consider using this engine? Thanks everyone.

Edited September 26, 2011 by 49Bseries

[49Bseries]

Here are some pics of the engine. It was said to be running some years ago and turns over freely but was really a bonus. I have not decided if it is worth the bother to change the engine. I am leaning towards staying as original as possible.

[Young Ed]

If your goal is to stay as original looking as possible then you'll want to transfer the fluid drive stuff over to your existing engine. However there can be complications there if your crankshaft doesn't have enough holes to attach the fluid drive unit. On the other hand the Chrysler engine will get you more CI's and only the most dedicated mopar lover would be able to tell the difference looking under the hood.

[49Bseries]

Good point. I will either have to use this engine or find an eight hole Dodge crankshaft. Am I correct in thinking that the crankshaft will not swap to the Dodge engine?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Thanks for the advice Merle. I will definitely do that. The carb is a Carter but has an automatic choke on it. I will be double clutching it according to the position of the filler plug. Merle you would not happen to have a template or measurements for the emblem holes would you? Some other goodies: a nice set of helper springs which I am now considering using on mine and a flashlight holder still on the steering column:D. The engine appears to have the serial C53-62 stamped on the pad. I don't know much about the 25 inch long engines but it is evident where they modified the mounting area and there is no place to mount the radiator. Should I consider using this engine? Thanks everyone.

C-53 is a 265 Chrysler engine!

[49Bseries]

C-53 is a 265 Chrysler engine!

HMMMMM...Starting to lean toward using the "Spitfire". Hope the internals are in good shape. I did notice a post atop the head that is maybe used for a dual carb linkage?

[Dodgeb4ya]

That post is just the passenger carb linkage pivot. The 2-1/2 ton trucks ( K series) with the 265 had twin carbs and a different casting # head.

Bob

[Rusty O'Toole]

265 with full flow oiling! Score!

It may be a little late but have you considered trading your truck for one with fluid drive? I expect a lot of guys would rather have the manual trans. or maybe it's just me.

[Merle Coggins]

The bigger engine can be made to work in your truck. I believe it has something to do with reversing the radiator mount. I believe Reg Evans has done this with one of his trucks. He can most likely provide the insite you'll need.

Merle

[NiftyFifty]

I may be wrong, but if something happens to the fluid drive trans are you not left in the cold? I thought the internals were not able to be purchased anymore unless you found NOS parts?

I would do the T-5 swap myself..I did it and it wasn't really hard at all and makes the truck 1000x more useable then the 4 speed which is what mine had. The revs are way lower, the shift is smooth, the noise is way down and your not anywhere near as major a swap as what Merle outlined in his OP

[Rusty O'Toole]

I may be wrong, but if something happens to the fluid drive trans are you not left in the cold? I thought the internals were not able to be purchased anymore unless you found NOS parts?

I would do the T-5 swap myself..I did it and it wasn't really hard at all and makes the truck 1000x more useable then the 4 speed which is what mine had. The revs are way lower, the shift is smooth, the noise is way down and your not anywhere near as major a swap as what Merle outlined in his OP

You are right, OEM parts are getting scarce, however the transmissions and fluid drive units are very rugged and long lived and there seems to be a fair number of used units and parts available.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I may be wrong, but if something happens to the fluid drive trans are you not left in the cold? I thought the internals were not able to be purchased anymore unless you found NOS parts?

I would do the T-5 swap myself..I did it and it wasn't really hard at all and makes the truck 1000x more useable then the 4 speed which is what mine had. The revs are way lower, the shift is smooth, the noise is way down and your not anywhere near as major a swap as what Merle outlined in his OP

Whats a Fluid Drive trans?

[Dodgeb4ya]

I put a completely rebuilt 1954 Chrysler 265 with sodium valves in my 52 Dodge PU in 1974. What I had to do was move the radiator to the front side of the core support and reverse the oil pan sump ( cut and reweld the passenger pan sump- front to back) I didn't know back then to find a 1-1/2 ton truck pan was what you needed to correct the reversed pan sump for the trucks- sump is to the rear of the engine on the cars. Also the front pulley and damper hits the front of the frame pulley pocket as the 265 engine is longer. I used a large cutting torch tip and carefully heated and reshaped/ stretched the frame pocket to get the necessary room for the pulley/damper on the longer block engine.

And last the front of the pan is real close to the rivited flange of the frame-but works. Today if I was to do it I would modify for more oil pan clearance.

The 265 is the engine you want as it has tons of torque and power. You're lucky to find one and hopefully it is a good engine ready to go!

Edited September 28, 2011 by Dodgeb4ya

[49Bseries]

I put a completely rebuilt 1954 Chrysler 265 with sodium valves in my 52 Dodge PU in 1974. What I had to do was reverse the core support and reverse the oil pan sump ( cut and reweld the passenger pan sump- front to back) I didn't know back then to find a 1-1/2 ton truck pan was what you needed to correct the reversed pan sump for the trucks- sump is to the rear of the engine on the cars. Also the front pulley and damper hits the front of the frame pulley pocket as the 265 engine is longer. I used a large cutting torch tip and carefully heated and reshaped/ stretched the frame pocket to get the necessary room for the pulley/damper on the longer block engine.

And last the front of the pan is real close to the rivited flange of the frame-but works. Today if I was to do it I would modify for more oil pan clearance.

The 265 is the engine you want as it has tons of torque and power. You're lucky to find one and hopefully it is a good engine ready to go!

Thanks for all the ideas. This has gotten me really interested in this engine and I have discovered quite a bit of information on this very forum. As far as the T5 swap: I know a lot of people prefer this option and will shake their heads at my choice, but it is what I desire for this truck. I cannot explain it. I guess I lucked out on the engine, because I really made the trip just for the Fluid Drive stuff. I have been looking at how the other truck was modified for the Chrysler engine and it is pretty straight forward. The pan is already set up. The only hang up I can see is the radiator, but I see that some of you have done it so I will have to research more. DodgeB4Ya: I am attempting to imagine what entails reversing the core support. Is it just flipping the U shaped radiator support around? Thanks

[John-T-53]

...snip...

The 265 is the engine you want as it has tons of torque and power. You're lucky to find one and hopefully it is a good engine ready to go!

What's the ratings for the 265 and how would it compare to the lil' 218?

This sounds like a killer powerplant upgrade, especially with dual carbs and exhaust. Might have to put that on the to-do list someday...

[Young Ed]

Thanks for all the ideas. This has gotten me really interested in this engine and I have discovered quite a bit of information on this very forum. As far as the T5 swap: I know a lot of people prefer this option and will shake their heads at my choice, but it is what I desire for this truck. I cannot explain it. I guess I lucked out on the engine, because I really made the trip just for the Fluid Drive stuff. I have been looking at how the other truck was modified for the Chrysler engine and it is pretty straight forward. The pan is already set up. The only hang up I can see is the radiator, but I see that some of you have done it so I will have to research more. DodgeB4Ya: I am attempting to imagine what entails reversing the core support. Is it just flipping the U shaped radiator support around? Thanks

The other option is to try and find a radiator from a bigger truck that came with the longer engine.