PTO question

[austinsailor]

I'm amazed by the amount of knowledge you guys have. This time, I may just push the envelope too far with my question, but I can hope.

I pulled the PTO off the transmission of my Fargo to put new seals in it. In reassembling it, there is something amiss and I can't figure out what I'm missing.

With no drawings or books, I'm missing something, either in assembly, a part or understanding. I'll try to explain, but if you've never had one apart or seen drawings, it may not make much sense.

There are two shafts, one that the gear rides on, a second one that shifts the gear to mesh with the one in the transmission. My problem is with the shifting shaft. There are no forks, just a notch in the shaft that fits over the gear to act like a fork would. If this shaft rotates, the edge of the notch will engage the tooth of the gear and everything locks up.

One end of this shifter shaft goes through a seal and hooks to something to shift it in or out, in my case a metal lever. That end is fine.

The other end has two groves around it that a ball is forced into to hold it in it's position, either engaged or not, similar to the shifter stops in the transmission. That part works fine.

On the bottom is a slot lengthways. The purpose of this slot is to keep the shaft from rotating so that the edge of the notch doesn't catch the top of the gear teeth. I seem to have nothing to stick into that slot to keep it from turning.

There is a hole drilled down through the two shaft holes, where the spring and ball bearing go in to hold it in gear. The bushing for the main shaft slides in and seals the hole to hold them against the one side of the shifter shaft. I would have thought the hole was drilled on through, below the shifter shaft, and a pin or rod on the other side would be there to stick in the slot. I found no hole or part. I'm baffled as to how it ever was kept from rotating.

If I've made any sense, can anyone give me some idea of what I'm missing?? Anyone have a drawing out of a manual?

I've got a spare cover for the PTO opening, so I'll go ahead and put the transmission in tomorrow, but in time I need to reinstall the PTO. Can't be a dump pickup without a PTO!

[HanksB3B]

but what's a PTO?

Hank

[Dave72dt]

PTO = Power Takeoff It's a small gearbox that attaches to the side of the transmision to provide power to run another device, commonly a hydraulic pump.

The parts listing shows a long rivet in the housing that may engage that long slot. However it also shows a fork used to shift the gear. It's possible the PTO box came from something else. Transmisions were pretty generic between brands as far as PTOs went so whoever set the dump box and hydraulics up may have provided the PTO gearbox as well,meaning it may notbe a Dodge PTO.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Pictures of the problem issue would be good and what does the Model tag say?. I have some new and used PTO's for my Dodges and maybe I could look at them to help you out- but there are several models...forward/reverse, 2 speed forward....single speed one way ect ect.

Hank, this picture is a optional PTO (Power Take Off) gearbow attached to the trans for operating auxillary equipment like a dump bed pump as Gene is wanting to do. The PTO turns a small driveshaft hooked to the accessory equipment.

Bob

[Guest P15-D24]

I would try posting over on the Powerwagon forum.

[HanksB3B]

then I'd go to http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com or send Fernando a plane ticket. He's into that Big stuff too.

Hank

[48Dodger]

but what's a PTO?

Hank

lol.....city boy!

48D

[HanksB3B]

answer this: What's a "Doodle Bug". Hint: It is a vehicle.

Hank

[ggdad1951]

answer this: What's a "Doodle Bug". Hint: It is a vehicle.

Hank

it's also a sanding tool for sheetrocking! go figure!

[austinsailor]

Here are a couple pictures. I see it's not the same as the picture above.

I don't recall seeing a name anywhere.

[olddodgeguy]

The Doodle bug I remember was a machine sorta like a Tote Goat. Or a Cushman scooter type thing! Mike

[Don Coatney]

answer this: What's a "Doodle Bug". Hint: It is a vehicle.

Hank

https://sites.google.com/site/briggsnpscooterengine/

[Dave72dt]

answer this: What's a "Doodle Bug". Hint: It is a vehicle.

Hank

It's a car that was modified for use as a farm tractor or utility vehicle. WW ii era. New tractors were still is very short supply. You ordered one and when, much later it arrived you paid for it. No money or not enough , it went to the next person on the list. they'd cut the backhalf of the sheet metal off the car, make up a utility box of some sort and use it around the farm much as we use 4 wheelers, side by sides today.

[Dave72dt]

What's the groove on the other end of the shaft for?

[JBNeal]

That shifter shaft appears to have a keyway cut into it. My guess is that a length of keystock is used to keep this shaft from rotating 360¤.

[HanksB3B]

It's a car that was modified for use as a farm tractor or utility vehicle. WW ii era. New tractors were still is very short supply. You ordered one and when, much later it arrived you paid for it. No money or not enough , it went to the next person on the list. they'd cut the backhalf of the sheet metal off the car, make up a utility box of some sort and use it around the farm much as we use 4 wheelers, side by sides today.

So who's more country here? Dave from Wisconsin or Tim from California?

1. Car Modified for Farm Use

2. Briggs & Stratton Scooter (I'd love to restore one of those)

2. A "Go-Figure" Sander

Sorry about stealing your thread Gene, but I still think vintagepowerwagons.com is your best bet,

Hank

[Dave72dt]

I don't know how "country" Tim is but I guess I'm about as country as it gets. Remember seeing a couple of those doodlebugs when I was a youngster. They were still being used in the late 50's and getting driven on our gravel roads. Thought they were the coolest thing around. Started making one myself out of a '56 Ford Custom in the mid 60's, cutting the body apart with a hacksaw and cold chisel. My first custom. Never got it running. Pulled the Y block and rear axle out of it and put it in a '62 Merc Comet- second custom. Never got it running either. Father never said a word against doing either one. Even gave up garage space for the Comet.

49 out of 58 years on the farm. Yeah, I'm country!

[48Dodger]

Sorry I didn't get to your question Hank! I've been out mending fences, chasing the bull out of the yard, and grating the road! Seriously! The winds were so hard here that 100 or so cows packed against the back fence (they stand with thier butts towards the wind) and ended up laying the wire fence down. Low enough that the bull walked over it. After I got him back where he belonged (with my ATV) I fixed the dents he made in the road (cuz the massive amount of rain we had softened it up for him)...glad when this weather changes, ready for some steady sunshine. Oh, about that question. A "doodle bug" is a...oh wait...someone left the barn door open!...I'll have to get back to y'all in a bit.

48D

[HanksB3B]

I'll have to tell you one of my favorite country stories:

Back in the early 70’s I lived in Vermont and like any other country region we had tall tales you could choose to believe or disbelieve. There was a certain man Don Bloodgood (I’ll call him) that was known about parts to be one of the strongest and most hardworking dairy farmers in the county. One day it was rumored he baled hay from sunrise to sunset on some unbelievable amount of acres, went into town, finished a case of beer, then when the local law tried to arrest him for public intoxication, he beat up the entire police force, got into his pickup and drove home.

I had the chance to meet him personally one evening when I stayed too long at the local watering hole and the friend that drove me into town picked up some local girl at the bar and took off. It was after 2:00am in the winter and I had my dog tied up outside. I lived a good 20 miles away, so walking home was not an option. O.K. so there’s Don Bloodgood with his pickup idling in the freezing night. I explain my predicament and Don say’s “Get your dog in the back, get in, I’ll be right there.

I get in the truck (I’m 19) and am surprised to see his beautiful wife in the prime of her womanhood. She touches my leg; I get nervous to the point of sweating in sub zero weather. I’m real uncomfortable and when Don opens the driver side door, It’s obvious to me that in his stupor he’s forgotten he offered me and my dog a ride home when the worst words I can imagine tumble from his lips “What are you doing in my truck boy sitting next to my wife?” I fumble for a response that will deescalate the situation. I have to think fast and respond even faster (I picture myself laying on my back in a snowbank with a bloody mouth), the words come and with the best farmboy grin a city boy can muster, I get it out “Waiting for you Don” I’m home with my dog the fireplace is burning ash hardwood all is well.

Hank

Edited March 27, 2011 by HanksB3B

[austinsailor]

Some pretty good stories!

Now a boring answer. The slot is what I would think is supposed to keep the shifter shaft from turning. My problem is, there is no keyway, no hole for a pin, nothing.

I do have good news, though. I think I figured out how it managed to work. There is a handle, home made looking, that is bolted to the PTO housing. I'll get pictures sometime when I can get them, but that handle hooks into the slot at the other end of the shaft and will keep it from rotating when everything is installed. Very backdoor, somewhat dangerous, because if the one bolt vibrates out, it can take the PTO, then the transmission with it.

I put the extra plate on it, and it's all assembled and ready to go into the truck.

Rebuilt a rusted up hand brake assembly that came out of a 48 panel with a 3 speed. Had to modify a few parts to fit, as the fargo had the brake in the dash, and the 3 speed had different sized parts, but it lives.

I also found that the 4 speed in the 53 b4b was a different transmission. PTO cover is the same, gears inside are in different places (may be why the shift shaft has 2 slots) and the case is a lot different. Not sure if the transmissions will interchange or what.

[Dave72dt]

I'd guess there was a plate with a hole that would go over that shaft with a tab in it to line up with the slot. Then with the bolt in place it stays in position. Would be a straight in and out movement on the shaft when shifting so little to no side wear should occur. With the ball and spring detent, that gear doesn't even move when disengaged so likelyhood of trans damage is restricted to only when PTO is actually engaged.

[austinsailor]

I'll try to get some pictures with a real camera later, but there is no place for a hole or plate or anything. Totally baffling.

You are correct, PTO would have to be engages to break something, but if so, it would lock it up and something would have to give, probably gear teeth.

This thread brought about some stories, so I'll add mine. It's even PTO and MOPAR related.

Back in 1962 I was a 16 year old kid working in the local Chrysler/Desoto garage, Boone County Motors in Columbia, Mo. These things wouldn't happen today, but at 16 I'd run service calls, tow cars in with a pickup and strap, all sorts of things that would probably put people in jail today.

One day they sent me to Kansas City, about 125 miles away, to take a '57 Dodge to the auto auction. Seems it had a cracked block and they hadn't been able to sell it locally, so off to the auction it went. (Yes, those things did happen! Running mileage back, all sorts of things.)

Only parts of Interstate 70 were finished then, but I found that I could get that old Dodge to peg the speedo at 120 on the way up there. I survived it, and got to the auction.

Someone drove me to a parts house, I picked up a new PTO for a customer back home, then got a ride to the Greyhound station and rode home.

Those were different days.

[oldmopar]

Here is a link to a pto drawing on the VPW catalog scroll down a little. Yours should be similar

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/20powertakeoff.pdf

[austinsailor]

Thanks for the link, but it's not even close! Much simpler.

[HanksB3B]

Things were different then. You'd just sell a car like that to your cousin for $100 when you got a different car. I had my grandfathers Dodge Coronet. Pushbutton and I guess it had the 318?. I was crazy, but I don't think I ever drove it at 120 mph, but I couldn't swear to that.

Hank