dropped uprights

[40plyrod]

This weekend some friends and I went to the big(for our area) coastal swap meet where I picked up a set of homemade dropped uprights. My plan was just to use them to see if they would work with the disc brake setup I made and then replace them with ones from fatman, however having had a pretty good look at them now I'm wondering if I should use them as is. They look well built and well used meaning that the paint on them is rock chipped everywhere. The guy I bought them from said they were made by a local rodder in the late sixtys and used on his plymouth until his car was sold and the new owner replaced the front end with a mustang II. They may not even work with the disc brakes I'm using but I was wondering if I should use them and what I should do to check them out; Magnaflux them, x-ray or just use them to mock up and throw them out( I didn't pay much for them).I'm quite sure that I don't want to be driving and have a wheel fall off:eek: Thanks

[Cpt.Fred]

what car do you intend to use them on, a P10?

(i guess from your profile...)

i'd really like to see a picture of them!

are there really fatman spindles for the P10?

also, what size of wheels do you use?

[james curl]

Did the person who modified then put a diamond gusset on both sides where the knuckle boss attaches to the upright for additional strength? Did he wrap a piece of flat stock around the back side of the upright and ending it on both sides of the knuckle boss welded all the away around? If the weld is gusseted on both sides from the center of the upright to the center of the knuckle boss and welded solid I would have the x rayed and dye checked then if they looked good I would use them. Do the spindles you plan to use have four holes for the backing plate or three? If three then they are 46 and later and Fatman has a kit, if they are four hole I think they use the same adapter as the pick ups and would be pre 46. Charlie here on the forum makes adapters for both. You can find him in the vendors under Rusty Hope or old daddy one are the other, he can help you. He dropped a set of uprights by sawing the bridge connecting the knuckle boss and the upright at the upright and moving the boss up and re-welding the two back together then adding plating for strength. At one time right after he first made his he posted pictures of them. I do not think he will make any for sale to the public because of the liability in today's society unlike the 50's when yours were made. Some of the magazines actually showed this being done to lower a custom car as back then all hot rods used a Henry Ford buggy spring and axle, even early Plymouth hot rods.

[40plyrod]

i'd really like to see a picture of them!

are there really fatman spindles for the P10?

also, what size of wheels do you use?

Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions I didn't think there was a difference in the upright portion of the spindle between early plymouths and later. I know the spindle itself is different but seperating it at the kingpin isn't the upright the same? I'm using 15" wheels to clear my disc brake caliper although I have 14" on there now. I'll post some pictures later on today.

[40plyrod]

Do the spindles you plan to use have four holes for the backing plate or three? If three then they are 46 and later and Fatman has a kit, if they are four hole I think they use the same adapter as the pick ups and would be pre 46..... He dropped a set of uprights by sawing the bridge connecting the knuckle boss and the upright at the upright and moving the boss up and re-welding the two back together then adding plating for strength.

Mine are the 4 hole type but I ve already built the disc brake set up (see my post on how I did this) Is there a difference between the uprights though? The uprights I bought were made like the ones Charlie made cutting them at the bridge and moving the kingpin boss up the upright but no extra plating was added, although some could be added but I'd leave that to a certified welder if I was going to use them.

[Cpt.Fred]

hmm, when i talked to the guys at fatman (last year in summer) they said

they wouldn't have anything suitable for these cars. maybe they didn't know it was the same part, i do not either.

but it would be good news if they were identical.

i'm using 16" original steelies, because i like the factory striping so much.

so i have problems with wheel clearance while steering when i lower the front any more...

i'm looking forward to the photos, i love vintage custom and speed parts:cool:

[fstfish66]

hmm, when i talked to the guys at fatman (last year in summer) they said

they wouldn't have anything suitable for these cars. maybe they didn't know it was the same part, i do not either.

but it would be good news if they were identical.

i'm using 16" original steelies, because i like the factory striping so much.

so i have problems with wheel clearance while steering when i lower the front any more...

i'm looking forward to the photos, i love vintage custom and speed parts:cool:

what do you meen fat man wont have any thing suitable for these cars ?? did i miss some thing??? i just talked to fat man him self at NSRA east,,about a pair of dropped uprights for a 40 dodge,, said in stock,,,

[james curl]

I believe the up right is the same for all MoPar products from 40 to the start of the torsion bar cars. I have a 41 Dodge front suspension, a 48 Plymouth and a 51 Dodge front end and the only difference I can find is the spindles themselves. The 41 has four hole backing plate where the 48 and 51 have three bolt backing plates.

[Cpt.Fred]

ok, so i stand corrected.

must have been me and my german-english gobbledygook on the phone then...

[james curl]

If someone here on the forum has access to a Hollander inter-change manual they can see if the parts will interchange. I have a parts interchange booklet for 1938-1954 American cars on a limited number of parts. All MoPars from 42-54 use the same inner and outer trunion bushing kit, Chrysler I/6 cars, De Soto, and Dodge use the same kingpin bolts, Plymouth uses an earlier one from the 38-39 Chrysler and De Soto cars and the 39-48 Dodges. From the booklet that I have it shows that the upper and lower pivot points on the upright for all MoPar cars from 41-54 are the same. I suspect that the uprights are all the same and only the spindles change because of the larger front brakes on the larger cars.

[Young Ed]

When I needed new uprights for my p15 Dad looked them up in either his hollander or his mopar parts books and there was a change at 1951. What all that involved I'm not sure. He had a 50 ply out behind the shed that was for parts so it gave up its uprights for my cause.

[fstfish66]

this is gonna sound stupid,,, when i talked to the fat man him self last week,,he told me to measure some thing at the top of the up right on my 40 dodge,,,behind the boot,,said there are 2 differnt sizes,, since my car is currently in storage i cant get at it to see what he is talking about,,, my plan is to take out the previous owners cut coils,,and install new eaton full size coils and fat man dropped up rights and shock mount, to get the same lowered look i currently have

[Jhnugent]

On 6/11/2010 at 3:21 PM, fstfish66 said:

this is gonna sound stupid,,, when i talked to the fat man him self last week,,he told me to measure some thing at the top of the up right on my 40 dodge,,,behind the boot,,said there are 2 differnt sizes,, since my car is currently in storage i cant get at it to see what he is talking about,,, my plan is to take out the previous owners cut coils,,and install new eaton full size coils and fat man dropped up rights and shock mount, to get the same lowered look i currently have

 

[Jhnugent]

Hey. I was reading your thread. I myself have the same issue. I have a 1940 Plymouth. Im looking into the dropped uprights through  Fat-man. I ordered them. He then call back saying I have to measure the upper trunnion. Says there’s 3 different sizes for that year. He said it’ll be either a 400, 370 or 310. First of all what am I measuring?  And where’s the numbers coming from?  

[Plymouthy Adams]

I believe the time to ask that question would be when he was on the phone....however I would say your are measuring centimeters..

 

I lost a toe nail due to a dropped spindle....

Edited January 27, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[Andydodge]

Jhnugent.......what he is referring to is the upper outer bush/spindle size......I think...........lol.........what I did on my 1940 Dodge 46 yrs ago was to replace the 1940 style upper A arm with 1941 to 1954 style upper A arms which are a stronger design, mine are MOOG cast steel aftermarket A arms but stock 41-54 stamped steel arms are the same............the upper inners are the same 1940 to 1954 so its just a straight swap with the attached A arm and you use the 1941-54 style upper outer bush and pivot pin on the 1940 spindle...........I also used the 1941-54 style kingpin as well on my 1940 spindle and 1941-54 style stub axle with the 1940 lower A arm with its stock inner & outer bush & pivot pins...........been working this past 45 yrs or so.......and yep, thats a 1" thick heim jointed 1940 shaped sway bar and 11" discs with a narrowed 9" rack & pinion.........and 318 Poly ..................regards, andyd 

[fstfish66]

its been so long now since  i did it i cant remember what  i  measured,,,reply to me if you still need this info,,,,i know some one  right now doing this conversion, 3/4/2021

[James_Douglas]

On 6/11/2010 at 4:51 AM, james curl said:

All MoPars from 42-54 use the same inner and outer trunion bushing kit, Chrysler I/6 cars, De Soto, and Dodge use the same kingpin bolts

That is not exactly true. The long wheelbase six cylinder Chrysler, Desoto, Dodge, and a very few Plymouth's used a larger Chassis and the uprights and the spindles and the king pins are of a lager size.

[James_Douglas]

This is not going to be a popular post. But every time I read about modified forged parts I make the same comment.

 

In about 1975 I was building a hot rod model "A". I put in a mustang steering box. I needed to modify the pitman arm. I found a welder who had opened a shop a year before. He had just moved to northern California. He was one of the thousands of sub contractors that had been left adrift due to the cancellation of the Apollo Program.

 

He was one of the welders that built the Lunar Module that went to the moon and parts of it still sit there.

 

He took about 4 hours to cut and weld my forged steering arm. It was quite a processes. he explained what he was going at each step and why each step had to be done. When it was done, he made me take it a person who could x-ray it and bring him the x-ray. Only when he was convinced that the welds did not have any hidden micro cracks did he say it was fit to use.

 

Many years ago I asked "fat man" about their process. I was not impressed. Sure they have sold many modified forged parts. But it only takes one to kill someone.

 

Welding forged parts by the "textbook method" would make the parts more expensive than most people would pay. I for one, will would not modify a forged part for street use again unless someone when through the exacting process that welded did all those years ago.

 

As a side note, years later I hot into an accident with that car, My only accident. The drag link snapped, but the Pitman Arm did not show any sign of trouble.

 

I know that many here will butch and moan about what I have written, but I feel compelled for the hobby to say something. In this age where people file in court on the drop of a hat...my question is how much of your net worth are you willing to put at risk by modifying a forged part in the steering or suspension on a street car?

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

they even less serious about their mods to the chassis when grafting subframes and the sort into play.....I have seen some cars that I felt if they ever got wet the very rust on them would dissolve and prove to be the very item that kept them in one piece...Fatman uprights are fabricated from new metal...not cut and welded old stock...I own two sets and I find no fault in them.   I also am not from Hazard County and go by the name of Bo....

[Sniper]

When ever I get into making modifications I think to myself "would I be comfortable letting my wife/kids drive it like this?"  If the answer is no, it doesn't get done.

 

 

[James_Douglas]

On 3/5/2021 at 9:31 AM, Plymouthy Adams said:

they even less serious about their mods to the chassis when grafting subframes and the sort into play.....I have seen some cars that I felt if they ever got wet the very rust on them would dissolve and prove to be the very item that kept them in one piece...Fatman uprights are fabricated from new metal...not cut and welded old stock...I own two sets and I find no fault in them.   I also am not from Hazard County and go by the name of Bo....

In my humble opinion, it does not matter if it is new metal or not. Welding forged parts takes a particular process that is very expensive and involved. Looking at them done will not tell you if there is a micro crack in there waiting to run.

 

Just ask Boeing and P&W about that with the tests that missed the micro crack on the turbine fan blades this last month on its engine that self destructed. I posted what I did to try and provide some education to people. People are of course free to ignore it.

 

James

 

 

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

if my uprights idled at 18000 RPM, yeah, I could see a bit more concern here...