It Cranks

[Joe Flanagan]

But I had to use a 12 volt battery to do it. I followed the instructions posted here recently. Just connected one cable to the starter side of the solenoid and grounded the other to the block. I wanted to prime the oil pump but I can't get it out. It comes almost all the way out and then hits the frame. So I cranked a little bit and the oil pressure gauge hasn't moved. I don't want to crank it any more. I understand I can pack it with grease? Do I just remove the top of the pump and pack axle grease in there? I also know I can remove the distributor and spin the pump with a flat bit screwdriver on a drill but I really don't want to start undoing all that stuff if I can avoid it.

It turns out the ignition switch is bad. I have power to the ammeter and to the switch itself but when I turn it, nothing happens. Thought it was the solenoid at first but that checks out fine.

Any suggestions on getting this thing primed much appreciated.

[aero3113]

To pull the pump out you may need to remove one of the bolts on the pump cover to gain clearance from the frame. It can be a pain to reindex the pump with the distributor once removed. If you pull the plugs and crank you should be able to prime the pump.

[Joe Flanagan]

I'll try that. I've got the plugs out. Will report back.

[Frank Elder]

Pack the pump it helps.

[Joe Flanagan]

I got the pump out far enough to fill it with oil. I cranked it and have some oil coming into the oil filter canister. Still no pressure at the gauge. Pack the pump with grease?

[aero3113]

I know when I replaced my pump it did take a few cranks before I got pressure. If you have oil in the filter canister I would think a few more cranks and you should have pressure.

[Joe Flanagan]

I'm cranking a lot and I've got no pressure. I'm calling it quits for the day. I don't want to damage anything. I do have a little seepage around where the oil pressure line goes into the block. I tightened that up but still no pressure. I put some assembly lube in the pump and cranked and I saw it come out in the filter canister, so oil is moving. How much can you crank these engines when you're doing this? I'm really worried I might be killing mine. Done for now.

[aero3113]

It sounds like it is pumping like it should. Do you know if your pressure gauge is good? You may also want to disconnect the fuel line so you do not flood the engine.Maybe disconnect the oil line to the gauge to see if any oil is in it?

[JerseyHarold]

Use a long neck oil can and squirt some oil onto the cylinder walls through the spark plug holes (you have to aim the oil sideways to get around the valve ledge inside the engine). You don't want to do a lot of cranking with dry cylinder walls!!

Leave the spark plugs out so it will crank faster.

Edited February 27, 2010 by JerseyHarold

[Joe Flanagan]

Not sure if the pressure gauge is good but after my last post I went back out and cranked a little more and I think the needle has moved from below zero to almost above zero.

The spark plugs have been out while I've been doing this.

I have no fuel coming to the carburetor that I can see. There is no fuel in the filter bowl. Oil is coming into the filter canister. I actually killed the 12 volt battery doing this. I cranked in short bursts, never longer than a few seconds at a time.

Is there supposed to be oil in the line that goes to the oil gauge? As I said in an earlier post, there was oil seeping out around where it threads into the block. I tightened it up a notch and we'll see if it still leaks tomorrow. My big worry is that I cranked too much on this thing.

[JerseyHarold]

You could possibly have some air in the tube to the oil gauge that would give you a false low reading.

[Don Coatney]

Do what I did. Then you will know for sure.

[Joe Flanagan]

Don, is that something that's available at run-of-the-mill auto stores like Auto Zone and Pep Boys? That's all that will be open tomorrow.

[blueskies]

To pull the pump out you may need to remove one of the bolts on the pump cover to gain clearance from the frame. It can be a pain to reindex the pump with the distributor once removed. If you pull the plugs and crank you should be able to prime the pump.

If the '49 is like the '50, the pump won't clear the frame without lifting the engine about 6 inches.

All I did to prime my pump was to fill it with oil. Can't remember how long I cranked to get pressure, but I think it took a fair bit of cranking....

Pete

[JIPJOBXX]

Did you remove oil pressure check vlv or spring???? I think if this is not in place than you will get a little oil pressure but not much. Do you know where that pressure check vlv is located at? Its located right next to the distributor on the block. If you remove the cap that holds the spring and check vlv spring and check vlv be careful not to drop all those parts:eek:. Also that check vlv can be put in backward and then you really have a problem (I know I did it). Just make sure that the vlv side (Pointy is toward the block passage.)

[JIPJOBXX]

As far as Axel grease I would say no way! its suppose to push oil not grease. Just make sure you put that oil in the cylinders as they do need lubrication. You might just unfasten the line from the block to the filter and see at that point how much oil is coming out. But try to find something that will catch the oil or you will have a small mess on your hands. Like I said befor did you remove the oil pressure regulator spring or piston? If so make sure its back in place. Sometimes this piston will get stuck in the passage way that holed it in place and that could require you to use a easy out or something else to grab that piston. Keep us informed as I know I have chased the monkey around the tree more time than I can count on my old Dodge.

Edited February 27, 2010 by JIPJOBXX

[DutchEdwin]

Did you remove oil pressure check vlv or spring???? I think if this is not in place than you will get a little oil pressure but not much. Do you know where that pressure check vlv is located at? Its located right next to the distributor on the block. If you remove the cap that holds the spring and check vlv spring and check vlv be careful not to drop all those parts:eek:. Also that check vlv can be put in backward and then you really have a problem (I know I did it). Just make sure that the vlv side (Pointy is toward the block passage.)

Because the old school check valve is not doing it's job so well (leaking empty when the car is at rest) I modified the old canister filter(picture 1) to a modern filter (adapter in picture 2) and high volume oil pump.. So there will be enough oil flowing and enough cooling of the oil because it is flowing in high volume.

Joe, good luck tomorrow. I'll probably will be doing the same thing, bringing the baby back to life, that is ....if there is any spare time left, else just some other time ....because it's a hobby.....it doesn't matter.......of course it does...because I want to get it started.....but as you all know...family things to do etc. etc.

Edited February 28, 2010 by DutchEdwin

[Joe Flanagan]

I didn't remove the pressure relief valve. It's new with a new spring in it and I believe it is in correctly but I'll check that tomorrow. A question for those who've spun the oil pump with a drill: Isn't the oil pump drive shaft geared to the camshaft? Wouldn't you also be trying to spin the valve train when doing that? The oil is making it from the block to the filter. Looking at the oiling system in my manual, that means it is in the oil galleys and is likely lubricating the camshaft and the timing chain. Hard to say, though, from the diagrams I have.

I'm going to get one of those gauges Don recommended tomorrow if I can find one. I'd like to try the drill method and see what that does. Seems like you'd need a pretty long extension on your drill, no?

Edwin, good luck. By the time I start I guess you'll be calling it a day. We got decent weather here today. Hope you get the same in Holland.

[Jerry Roberts]

You can't spin the oil pump with a drill on these motors . You can do that on some other makes , perhaps chev .

[Joe Flanagan]

Maybe I was thinking of the person who mentioned removing the gear from a spare pump and installing it temporarily and spinning that with a drill.

[Young Ed]

Joe the oil pump is indexed to the cam and the cam is hooked to the crank with timing chain. You'd have to spin the whole motor over with the drill. Might as well use the starter to do the same thing.

[Don Coatney]

Don, is that something that's available at run-of-the-mill auto stores like Auto Zone and Pep Boys? That's all that will be open tomorrow.

You should be able to find a sutable gauge and fittings at a good hardware store.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Maybe I was thinking of the person who mentioned removing the gear from a spare pump and installing it temporarily and spinning that with a drill.

Joe, I posted the pic of the gearless oil pump I use for my flathead rebuilds. Here it is again.

Bob

[PatrickG]

All I did to prime my pump was to fill it with oil. Can't remember how long I cranked to get pressure, but I think it took a fair bit of cranking....

Pete

Same thing here, might've taken 15 or more seconds of continuous cranking on my first start.

One thing to remember, any pressure you start to build up will start bleeding off the moment you stop turning the motor over. This may be why you feel as though you've done a lot of cranking that thing over without any results, because you're stopping just a little too early to see them. I think if you've already verified that the pump is indeed moving some fluid, you should be safe to let it crank until you see some real pressure. Although I'm sure a squirt of oil down the spark plug holes wouldn't be a bad call.

To those with more experience than I, is this sound reasoning?

[Joe Flanagan]

I think very few of the cranks I've done were as long as 15 seconds.

Bob, thanks for the picture. I do have a spare oil pump but I'd like to keep it intact if I can.

Don, is that gauge sold as an oil pressure gauge or does it have some generic name?