Who knows about old HEMIs?

[Dan Babb]

I've come across two motors that are pretty local - both need work. I know nothing about old motors (well any motor for that matter).

Looking for tips since I barely know ford & chevy stuff, and nothing about hemis.

All details are according to the owners - I haven't seen either motor in person.

Motor 1 - 354 Chrysler Industrial motor - 4 hour drive - asking $750

It was used at an airport to power a generator - the luggage pickup belts in the terminal. It's complete...but most likely needs a thorough run through and rebuild. Turns freely and has "the right bellhousing" so it can be used in a car/truck. The owner was going to put it in a 53 Truck. When he heard that I had a 52, he emailed me back and said that they "trial fit it and it held the weight well and had plenty of clearance."

Anyone ever hear of an industrial motor? Look at the valve covers...even has industrial stamped in them. Worth using to put in a truck or keep looking?

Option 2 - 354 Hemi - 90 min drive - asking $500

Came out of a 57 Dodge Truck. Currently apart (heads off - crank, cam & pistons still in the block). Missing front cover and intake (maybe carb too...didn't ask). Engine threw a rod out the oil pan, but no damage to crank or other parts. One cylinder was filled with water when he got the motor, so it will need a rebuild. Says it's not bad, maybe 30 thousandths will be needed.

How hard is it to get parts for the old Hemis?

Anyone here ever rebuilt one?

[FargoPanel]

There will be a stamped number behind the water pump,on a machined surface just ahead of the valley cover. Those Industrial valve covers are hard to find.....if you find the number, post it here, and I can maybe figure out what size it is.

[Warren Nielsen]

If I recall correctly, the numbers for at least some of the industrial hemis were not on the rail behind the water pump, but on a tag riveted to the block behind the left hand head, between where the head bolts to the block and the bellhousing bolts on. At least that's where they are on the 354 industrial I have stashed away. Not sure if that was standard for all series of industrial motors. Also, there are some differences between the industrial units and those found in autos. There's a book by Ron Ceridono that has a lot of info about the 1st generation hemis.

I attempted to put my 354 into my 52 half ton but there were some problems that could not be overcome. I had modified my frame to accept a Volare front suspension (bolted in, not welded) and when I mocked up the motor mounts and set the block and heads in, the exhaust ports were all of about maybe less than 2 inches from the frame and suspension unit. No way was there room to fit an exhaust manifold or headers in there.

But don't let that deter you from trying with a stock front end. It may work. I couldn't say. And these engines aren't becoming more available as the days roll on either. If I had the opportunity, I'd try to latch onto both. Parts are available, but can be pricey. This site

http://www.hothemiheads.com/

has parts and goodies.

Warren Nielsen

[greg g]

There is a fellow onthe car board that in his signature line says he has hemi knowledge.

you might want to copy your post over there.

Chyrsler industrial engines were all over the place, from compressors to welderd to oil and irrigatin pumps to air raid sirens. I wonder if the one from the airport was an used every day deal or a stand by for use during electricity outages.

Hemis can be more expensive to beguild than a Small block Chevy but ITSA HEMI!!

[kencombs]

On the valve covers of the Industrial engine. Those indicate that is has mechanical lifters, the dimples are to clear the adjusting screw. Rare, hard to find parts.

I would go with it and buy the other one too just because these things are getting really scarce and going up in price. If you EVER think you might need two, now is the time to buy.

[kencombs]

The other poster was right about ID tags. I have an industrial 230 flathead, from a fork lift, it has the tag on the right side of the block instead of the normal stamped numbers on left upper side.

[greg g]

look here there is a pdf operators manual for the engines.

http://www.victorysiren.com/x/manual56/manual.htm

[Dan Babb]

Just found another HEMI option -

1954 DeSoto 276.1 Cubic Inch Hemi (Model S-17). Has the engine & trans and sounds like it's ready to run. I'd give it a solid run-through before installing it though.

Think this would be an easier fit into the Dodge because it's a smaller cu-in?

[Young Ed]

Dan I think the issue with fitting these is they are really wide. The desoto will be shorter then the chrysler and the dodge is even shorter but I'm not sure any of them are more narrow.

[Andydodge]

To give you an idea whether these Hemis are worth getting......there is a 57 392 here in Australia for $8000.00........yep.....running stock engine .......and it will sell, now in the States they still ain't that common now.........even if you don't use either get both cause you won't ever loose your money......especially for that industrial engine........andyd

[Dan Babb]

Here are specs from the tag on the Industrial one.

Tag at rear of engine: Model - IND - 56 , Type 266, Serial no. 5586

Also the head casting number is 1619823-1

[ssdodge51]

I just checked a couple of websites and an early hemi can weigh as much as 800 lbs. dressed out. I guess the main reason I would put one in is the "WOW" factor. The overhaul kits are also more expensive than most engines. I know I will get crucified for saying this but a small block chevy is really hard to beat(power vs weight)!! I have an LS-1 a friend of mine gave me for some work that I am eventually gonna put in my B3B

Please don't blackball me from the forum.................., I love my Dodge Truck!

[greg g]

The flat head 6 doesn't weigh a whole lot less maybe 50 lbs.

[Johnny 5]

The 1st one is basically a car angine with an industrial intake and valve covers, the 'truck' 354 probably has true truck/industrial heads so an aftermarket intake and water x-over will be more challenging to fit but not impossible. The Desoto is something like 1-2" narrower on each valve cover, the Dodge is even smaller. You can put whatever engine you want in it, it's your truck. Flathead 6's weigh as much as small blocks too but people have more fun with them. They're not boring like cookie-cutter engines.

[Warren Nielsen]

Ok, I'm working from fuzzy memory now. IF I recall correctly, the Model 56 industrials were 331 inches and the Model 56A were 354 inch. I would have to hunt around for where I found that out at, can't remember if it was in print or online.

It's harder to find parts and goodies for DeSotos. That would be an easier fit because its physical size is smaller. And the Dodges are smaller yet. Still, if it was available to me, I would. I guess I just like to glom onto this sorta stuff, even if there's a good chance I'll never use it. (My son will make a buck selling off the old man's stuff someday.)

And it's almost shocking to see how much smaller the baby Dodge hemis, the 241s and 270s, are sitting side by side with one of the big Chryslers. Those would be my 1st choice to put in a Pilothouse.

[Dan Babb]

Your right...I saw that online tonight. But the head casting numbers show that those are on the 354 engine, so maybe he's just not seeing the A on the tag?

The guy who owns the DeSoto engine emailed me back and doesn't think that it puts out enough power for what I want to use it for. Low HP & not much torque. His trans is a 2sp and probably won't work either. It's a nice looking engine, but I need something that will move the truck and a trailer loaded with my 68 Camaro and looks won't do it.

I'm going to have the guy measure the 354...he said he had it installed in a 52 Truck for a trial fit...need to find out if that was a dodge.

I'm also seeing some decent prices for 318 and 360 v8's online for rebuilt long-blocks. But that could wind up running 4k when it's fully dressed..and I'd still need a trans.

Maybe I'll just put nitrous on the Flat6 just to get up to speed.

[austinsailor]

For about $3k you can get a modern low mileage hemi, complete with transmission, computer and wiring harness from a wreaking yard. Opps - recycler. No rebuild needed, just make mounts, a new driveshaft and drive. Might not be a bad way to go.

[Frank Elder]

A plain jane 318 2bbl will tow your car trailer, a 360 will do it with oomph.

[austinsailor]

Speedway motors also has brand new in-the-crate hemi's, the current version, for $3000. Includes fuel injection, but won't include the transmission or computer. It'll cost you $3000 in parts to rebuild an old hemi. That won't include the core.

Gene G.

[Warren Nielsen]

A few more thoughts on this thread. The DeSoto would probably do the job for you with the right carb and camshaft installed to get the low end oomph you need to tow. And the cam would most likely be a custom grind for that engine, which equals dollars, plus the cost of parts to rebuild or freshen the engine up. Smaller engines (one of my 241 Dodges came from a truck with an 18 foot long flatbed on it) have done more. Transmission adapters to mate any early hemi to later trannies equals dollars.

There were thousands (maybe millions?) of 318s put in trucks. Parts are easy to find and rebuilds are way less pricey. Transmission selection is wide, both auto and manual. Their physical size is pretty close to the baby Dodges.

If your heart is set on a hemi and the WOW! factor that goes with them, get ready for a bunch of work and a flattened wallet. For a fair amount of work still and only a slightly flattened wallet, the LA engine would be the route to take.

[wayfarer]

I'll offer a couple of thoughts, in no particular order.

Early Hemi id info can be found here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121000&highlight=hemi+tech&page=2

The Ind56 is a 331. This is essentially the same as a 1955 Pass car engine.

Both engines noted by the OP are extremely good deals. Buy both.

All Industrial valve covers have 'bumps', very very few Ind engines have adj rockers. For Chrysler, it was simply easier to stamp all Ind covers the same and be done with it, not knowing what customers might order.

Hemi engines are expensive to rebuild, $6000 is not uncommon. If all you want is adequate (or excessive) torque to move a truck then the absolute best bang for the buck is a 383-400-440 Mopar. If money is a issue then check around, places like Liberty Engines will sell a reman 360 for around $1000.

Trans adapter packages for the Hemi engines (and flat 6&8) will be in the $400-$600 range, depending on what is included and the vendor.

Early Hemis do not weigh 800lb, I think that is what we call bogus info. The installed weight will be affected by what is bolted to it.

All of the EarlyHemi engines can easily make 1hp/cu in with very little effort and 1½ is not uncommon. The smallish DeSotos are great performers in basic hot rod trim. In addition to regrinding cams for the 276-291 we now offer custom forged pistons. Recall that the 53-55 DeSotos were not light cars by any stretch of the imagination and they moved quite well in stock form. Add a warm cam and 10:1 compression and be surprised!

Unless you are a computer nut, I'd stay away from the new stuff. Yes, a carb intake is available for the 5.7 but the COP ignition system is computer controlled.

Send a PM if I can help.