Did I fix my starter?

[Joe Flanagan]

As you may remember, I tested my starter a couple of weeks ago using jumper cables connected to my truck battery. All it did was spin slowly. Very slowly. I took it all apart, cleaned everything up, put new bushings in it, and now it seems like it works. Same test. Hooked it up to my truck battery. When I complete the connection it spins fast. Also generates some torque. The pinion gear comes out, but not a lot. Does this sound normal? My neighbor had to put his foot on the starter to keep it from turning over on its side. I did the same and you can definitely feel the torque come up through your leg. For some reason, I thought the pinion gear should come out farther than it does. That's based on nothing more that some idea I had. Can anyone tell me if A: the starter's behavior is normal, and B: how far the pinion gear should move outward when energized?

Thanks.

[Joe Flanagan]

Forgot to mention that I'm aware of Rodney B.'s experience with a starter just spinning but not turning the engine and aware that mine could have the same problem. Bendix? I'll recheck that thread.

[greg g]

Joe I sent you a link to a nos bendix that was buy it now on ebay. Did you get it??

The bendix should extend to it limit when the starter spins up.

[Joe Flanagan]

No, Greg, I missed that item. I will likely see if I can find another Bendix and switch it into the starter and see how it operates then. Changing the bushings made a HUGE difference. There was quite a lot of play in two of them. I noticed that vendors seem to sell two bushings with their rebuild kits, one for either end of the starter. I discovered by reading my manual that the starter actually has three bushings. There is one in the middle and mine was really worn out. Just for those who might be doing this job in the future.

[Young Ed]

Joe were you able to replace all 3 then?

[Joe Flanagan]

Yes, Ed. I used the two you sent me and went to the shop that originally tested my starter and got a third bushing for free. I know where there's a 49 Plymouth not that far from here that I'm going to pull the starter out of. I'll take out the Bendix and try that one in my starter and see if it does anything different:

[greg g]

Looks like some juvenial delinquent might have beat you to it. That fellow looks mighty suspicious. Is that at Leon's????

[Joe Flanagan]

That is one juvenile delinquent. He looks a lot like Rodney Bullock if you ask me. Anyway, the guy in the picture actually put me on to this particular bone yard. It's not Leon's by any stretch but it's got this one 49 Plymouth that has been very useful to me. There's a 49 at Leon's, too, but it's pretty far gone and covered with vines, etc.

[Joe Flanagan]

So I went to visit the Plymouth in the above picture today. The starter was gone. However, there was a Dodge truck nearby that had the same starter as mine. Looked like it was from the early 50s (I'm terrible at judging years). I pulled the Bendix drive out of it. When I compress this one and release it, it snaps right back, unlike my original. I took it home and installed it in my starter. Tested it with my truck battery and a set of jumper cables. Completely dead. I thought I might have gotten the brushes in the wrong slots so I disassembled it and reassembled more carefully. Same result. I thought maybe one of the wires to the brushes was touching something and grounding the starter out. I'm figuring it can't be the replacement Bendix because that is completely mechanical, correct? This is like no power is getting to where it's supposed to go. Tomorrow, just for kicks, I'm going to put my original Bendix back in and see what it does. I thought I'd include some pics of the project below just for the heck of it.

My starter and the Bendix from the Dodge truck:

Disassembly/Assembly:

[Joe Flanagan]

I think I can rule out the wires that go to the brushes makiing contact with anything. Just took a close look at it and all seems clear. There are new bushings in it, new springs, the brushes are good and it spun freely when I tested it with the original Bendix in it. When I hook it up to my truck battery it does absolutely nothing. There's no sound and nothing moves.

[martybose]

Obviously one cable goes to the stud; do you have a nice clean place on the starter chassis to connect the other cable to?

Marty

[norrism1]

Um! Does the battery have enough charge ?

[RobertKB]

So I went to visit the Plymouth in the above picture today. The starter was gone. However, there was a Dodge truck nearby that had the same starter as mine. Looked like it was from the early 50s (I'm terrible at judging years). I pulled the Bendix drive out of it. When I compress this one and release it, it snaps right back, unlike my original. I took it home and installed it in my starter. Tested it with my truck battery and a set of jumper cables. Completely dead. I thought I might have gotten the brushes in the wrong slots so I disassembled it and reassembled more carefully. Same result. I thought maybe one of the wires to the brushes was touching something and grounding the starter out. I'm figuring it can't be the replacement Bendix because that is completely mechanical, correct? This is like no power is getting to where it's supposed to go. Tomorrow, just for kicks, I'm going to put my original Bendix back in and see what it does. I thought I'd include some pics of the project below just for the heck of it.

My starter and the Bendix from the Dodge truck:

What's with the metric wrench?

[Joe Flanagan]

The starter body does offer a clean ground. I was able to spin the thing freely in earlier tests with my original Bendix. Yes, the battery has enough charge. I got in and started my truck right afterwards and ran some errands. Does anyone know how easy or difficult the armature should spin by hand? When I try to rotate mine, it's very difficult. I wonder if maybe it's not hanging up somewhere.

[Joe Flanagan]

Today I disassembled my starter again and re-installed the original Bendix. All it would do is spin very slowly. I took it apart again and started scratching my head. The only thing I could think of was the wires to the brushes were starting to get frayed and were kind of unwinding themselves out of their braided configuration. I decided to solder them so that they weren't all coming apart. Took it back out to test it and it spun like crazy, so that seems to have been the problem. It still seemed to me like the Bendix wasn't jumping out like it should. In fact, it wasn't moving out at all when it spun. So I re-installed the replacement Bendix and all the starter did was spin slowly. As I was taking it apart again, I noticed I had broken one of the brush wires. I soldered it back together but then when I was reassembing the starter I broke it again. Done for the day.

I discovered that these wires really take a beating during assembly and disassembly. Getting the springs on and off the brushes is a royal pain in the butt. If they get frayed, soldering them isn't the best idea. They get stiff and you can't manipulate them around the springs. The best option, I think, is to just get new ones. That's next for me now I guess.

[Jim Yergin]

Joe,

I admire your persistence. I know you will get it fixed.

Jim Yergin

[dparksie]

it is definately better to replace the wires than trying to solder them. Keep trying and it will work out. I have yet to try anything that did not require 2 shots (at least) to get things to work.

Keep the faith.

[Joe Flanagan]

Thanks, fellas.

As I was soldering the wires I was thinking, I'm not sure this is such a great idea. Went ahead anyway. What it told me was that my problem was with the fraying wires. At least that's the way it appears right now.

[Don Coatney]

Buy new brushes.

[Joe Flanagan]

I came to the same conclusion. They're on order. The problem is, if I'm working on something and it's a Sunday and all the parts places are closed, I get this mind set where I'm going to make it work ANYWAY. No matter what happens. Whether I have the right part or not.

[Don Coatney]

Join the NAVY!

[Joe Flanagan]

I didn't know that that was a proud Navy tradition.

[Frank Elder]

What else are you going to do in the middle of the ocean when you didn't stow the right parts to begin with?

Join the Army, learn how to walk around with a buncha Joes and point things at people....

[Joe Flanagan]

I was going to say, out in the middle of the ocean you at least have an excuse to cobble something together. I, on the other hand, can only claim it was Sunday and the stores were closed.

[Frank Elder]

You are doing fine Joe, a lot of people could learn perserverence through your "cobbling".