Timing chain cover

[pflaming]

Went to the threads, but did not find answer for this.

To remove the timing chain cover, the fan pulley must be removed. It looks like (1) it requires a pulley of sorts. There are two bolt holes. . . am I correct. (2) once the cover is removed, if I do not rotate anything, gears, crank shaft, etc. is there any other way to throw off the timing. The engine runs, I want to look in here as a preventative measure, it appears to be too easy to check now than later. (3) Is there another way to check a timing chain than to take off the cover, I doubt it.

Another new learning experience!

[Young Ed]

Yes you need a puller. It threads into the 2 bolt holes you mentioned and then pushed against the crank after the big nut is removed. Don't thread the 2 puller bolts in too far or you get dents/holes in your timing cover. With the cover off even if you rotate stuff you wont mess anything up unless you remove the timing chain/gears. And yes the only way to check it is to remove the cover and have a look.

[pflaming]

It threads into the 2 bolt holes you mentioned and then pushed against the crank after the big nut is removed''

So then (1) the nut comes off first, (2) then the pulley, which is PRESSED ON?, (3) then the timing chain cover.

Evidently that large nut does NOT loosen anything up back towards the front main bearing. Now, how do I hold the crank so I can loosen and remove that nut: Maybe with a bar against the two bolts. H,m,m,m .

edit: Now, is that large nut left threaded or right threaded? My pan is on, don't have an impact wrench, so need to get hold of something. Back to the garage.

Edited December 14, 2009 by pflaming

[Young Ed]

Sounds good. An impact will usually knock it off without holding anything. Otherwise a 2x4 between the crank and the block works good if you still have the oil pan off.

[pflaming]

The cover is off! Didn't expect water out of bolt holes @ 1 and 2 o'clock. Should water come out of the next one down? I was watching for oil but not water. Sitting in front of it didn't help much either.

Now. . . with the chain snug all around, using a file for a cross piece, a 7/64th drill bit was ok, and 1/8" th bit needed to be urged. Seems that ought to be acceptable. No fillings in the bottom of the cover and the teeth are all square.

Am I good to go?

Edited December 15, 2009 by pflaming
Added measurements

[Guest P15-D24]

plus make sure TDC is correct and the oil pump is installed correctly. The oil pump can throw off the distributor. Never know what a previous owner may have done and if your in there just check everything.

[Dodgeb4ya]

A note of caution on the 2 styles of front cover seals. The one seal is flat on the rear side. The other style has a raised curved lip/oil slinger on the back/chain side of cover. The t/c picture shows a later style slinger type oil seal. This one was rubbing against the crank gear because of a slightly caved in timing cover! You can just see the metal shavings in the cover pic. It was making a slight rubbing noise. Took it out of a "Overhauled " engine. The pic of the timing chain is a modern replacement chain ( narrower) than original DPCD chain installed on the old DPCD gears-WRONG! Always replace all 3 pieces as a matched set.
Bob

Edited July 28, 2015 by Dodgeb4ya

[pflaming]

Details!! This is why I use the forum, so helpful. I put an 1/8" drill bit on the edge of my chain. There is only 1/16" or less space from the chain to the edge of the sproket(s) so I think I have an original chain.

I have a new seal with a set I got from 'power wagon'. So thankful for the advice to get a full set from the 'get go'. So I think I have OE chain and cover and the seal should work. Thank you, much appreciated!

Edit: The 'Seal' in your picture shows a 'spring' ring on the inside. Mine does NOT have than. My seal has a spring/ring on the upper outside of the 'rubber' seal. H-m-m-m-m. When the cover came off, there was a string of rubber in the cover that had to come off of the seal. Need to check that closely.

My camera is broken, wish I could send a picture. The old one is like the one in the center picture. My new one has a front 'on the shaft' seal but not the secondary one. My new seal looks like half the innards are missing. Is it OK to use?

Edited December 15, 2009 by pflaming

[pflaming]

Son's telephone has a camera. New seal on the left. Not nearly as much to it.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Typical modern cheap(Thin metal shell) replacement.

[pflaming]

Called "Antique Power Wagon" when I got my seal kit. Yes, the seal is different but it uses better 'rubber' so does not need to be so substantial. To replace the cover he advised: (1) gently press the seal in the cover; (2) place the cover on the block, start but do not tighten the bolts; (3) replace the hub; replace the pulley, replace the bolt and tighten it; finally tighten the bolts on the cover in a circurlar manner. This will center the seal. (wet the shaft and seal with a clean oil)

[Dodgeb4ya]

The most important suggestion he said was to carefully "Press" the seal into the cover and with a large flat plate-size of the seal, so the Thin-"Cheap" steel seal won't deform and cause the inner spring to come off or warp the seal, then it would leak. The other suggestions were also 100%.

[austinsailor]

Sounds good to just press sit in, but how would you do that? Most tools are meant to be driven in, I don't know of a way to just press it in. I agree it would solve the spring popping out problem.

Ideas?

[Plymouthy Adams]

large arbor press or a standing hydraulic press..the cover if backed solid and the seal squarely started can be put into place with a dead blow hammer using a block of wood to protect the seal..sometimes it is good to put a tad of silicone sealer around the seals mating area to the case to insure seal against any slight damage done at an earlier removal..

and on installing the cover, follow the book and be sure the pulley and hub are in place on the shaft prior to tightening the cover screws..the cover floats a bit and this alignment is only correct with the hub in place.

[austinsailor]

My fault, the thread was about timing covers, I was thinking of axles, which won't go in a press. Of course I could use my press for a removable cover, backing plate or anything like that. My mind still had a picture of fishing the springs out of the axle housings.

[pflaming]

I did what Tim suggested, put a gasket sealer on both surfaces, put the cover on a solid bench, cut a solid piece of wood that covered the entire seal, used a good hammer and carefully drove it in. One has to hit it squarely / hard. I kept a close watch to be certain one side did not get ahead of another side/spot. All is in will see if OK when I start it back up.

Rings are next then brakes, reinstall the engine, reconnect all, and drive it down the alley. Be a nice Christmas present. Wish me luck!

[Dodgeb4ya]

Make sure on your hub area that the seal lip rides on is not grooved or worn-otherwise the front seal will leak. You might have to Speedi-Sleeve the hub to fix this common issue.

Bob

[pflaming]

Did that. I very lightly oiled the gasket and the hub, as I do my oil filter, before putting the hub on. Added your advice to my 'timing chain' doc. Thank you.

[Powerhouse]

A note of caution on the 2 styles of front cover seals. The one seal is flat on the rear side. The other style has a raised curved lip/oil slinger on the back/chain side of cover. The t/c picture shows a later style slinger type oil seal. This one was rubbing against the crank gear because of a slightly caved in timing cover! You can just see the metal shavings in the cover pic. It was making a slight rubbing noise. Took it out of a "Overhauled " engine. The pic of the timing chain is a modern replacement chain ( narrower) than original DPCD chain installed on the old DPCD gears-WRONG! Always replace all 3 pieces as a matched set.

Bob

as per VPW's technicians....that's installed backwards. Metal lip out, rubber seal in.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Powerhouse

[streamer]

Don't forget to put some permatex on the two bolts where the water came out of the bolt holes. If you forget to do this you will have a water leak when you get the engine running. My rebuilder forgot to do this when he put the engine back together after the rebuild and I did not notice the leak until after I had put the front of the truck all back together.

[Jocko_51_B3B]

I picked up a spare motor both to tinker with and to try to get running (right now it's seized up from years of non-use). Anyway, I'm at the point of trying to remove the fan belt pulley and timing chain cover. Is there a ready made puller available that I can attach to a slide hammer to get the pulley and key to let go of the crankshaft? I already have the large nut removed. By the way, why does the large nut have such a strange shape?

[Young Ed]

Yes to the puller no to the slide hammer. The nut has a strange shape to provide a surface for the manual crank start.

[Merle Coggins]

There should be 2 threaded holes on the crank pulley that can be used with a standard H-bar puller, or a harmonic balancer puller. Just be careful not to screw the bolts in too far of they will damage the cover and/or seal.

 

[Jocko_51_B3B]

Thanks much for the tips. Fortunately the holes in the pulley still had good threads so I bought an inexpensive puller at Harbor Freight ($13 I think) and it worked just fine. Now on to the next challenge...

[pflaming]

This thread posted in December 2009 nearly seven years ago. Graybeard was my mentor and he was very patient. Now I'm on my second 218 and just pulled the drive shaft pulley. This thread was helpful again.  Pulley is OFF!  I somewhat hate to pull that timing chain cover yet it must removed and that chain checked.   

 

Chain cover is off and there is a 1/4" slack in the chain.  NOT GOOD! Got to check the specks. Sure hope the chain did not run loose too long or those sprocket teeth may be sharp and that means $$$$$. 

 

Teeth all look good, non broke, no gold caps, none are cupped or sharp, and all have a nice rectangular top. So now the issue is the chain. $65 from VPW but will shop around. 

Question, is it possible to put in a half link?  

Edited April 20, 2016 by pflaming