POC President Election

[Captain Neon]

Does any one know anything about the three guys running for POC President? The little bio that the three candidates supplied really doesn't answer any questions that I want to know.

Nick DeSimone makes mention of getting regions to work together, and to get younger people to join the POC, but absolutely no specifics. If the national meet held in California is any indication, the POC dues may become too expensive for this Missouri redneck to consider maintaining membership much longer if Nick DeSimone has his way.

The other two guys (Richard Silhol & Carl V. VanBibber) just tell us their work resume and tell us nothing about the vision they have for the future of the POC.

I'm pretty confident that all three of these men are familiar to some one on this forum as all three are recent regional presidents of the POC.

Right now, I am planning on writing in Ed Juneau's name. Please give me good reasons why to vote for or against any of my four choices.

Frankly, I just want to keep getting my Plymouth Bulletin at the same quality for as little cost as possible. I think I am among the majourity of POC members in that we have little interest in competing at a national POC meet, and would prefer that the nearest region's meetings and events be more about cars and driving them than sharing pictures of the grandkids and getting a bite eat.

If these individuals happen to be members of this forum, I'd love to read what you have planned.

[greg g]

perhaps this discussion would be better had on the POC discussion board. There wasn;t much buzz regarding an election at the meet in MD. had I a vote I would write in Ed also. As far as getting younger members, I saw a sterling example of how not to do it in MD.

[Don Coatney]

As far as getting younger members, I saw a sterling example of how not to do it in MD.

And that was???????

[greg g]

The youngster 18 year old senior i High school, brough his Dodge lance back for display on Sat, not to be judged just wanted to park it and have folks look at it. He was told he needed to register for the event they wanted his to pay the full 50 dollar fee to park his car. Some quite unnecessary coments were over heard so he and his friend left. here is a kid who is a mopar enthusiast and is putting together a rather rare factory slant 6 4 speed Baracuda. Might make an interesting car for future Plymouth events, but I doubt after that he will have much need for the club. Why not let the kid in, suggest if he can make a contribution to the club that would be nice, if he can't well come on in. As chet mentioned the show was poorly attended by the public as there was no promotion of it, but there were lots of folks out and about in the area.

[Norm's Coupe]

Well........I'm not a member of the POC. But.......I have met and talked to Dick Silhol and his wife at a local area cruise in. They live just a few miles away. From the little I talked to them, he seemed like a nice guy. That's about all I can say other than he does have a nice P15.

How much are they talking about raising the dues? Think my brother in law pays about $50 each per year for both the national and local Ford V8 club. So.....the $28 (last I heard) POC membership is currently a real deal for those who want to join it.

With the cost of printing labor, ink, paper and mailing continually going up, I can see why someone is talking about raising the cost of membership. Printing is not cheap today. Just look at the cost of the little ink cartridge that you buy for your own little printer.

Not defending their proposed increase, just pointing that out. The POC rates were also $28 back in 1995 when I joined. So........I'd say they are due for an increase.

[Captain Neon]

I posted over there as well, but I expect more frank answers over here than over there. I am also interested in your examples of how not to make younger people feel welcome in the POC. My 59 year old father-in-law has been a POC member for almost as long as me, but after attending one national meet sponsored by the Colonial Region ('99?) with his '70 AAR 'Cuda and even winning a trophy he commented that he did not feel welcome at all. My father-in-law gets along with EVERYBODY and is often interviewed by national muscle car magazines about his car, 1) because its a sweet car and 2) he interviews well.

If any body could get elected to the New York State House of Representatives as an independent, he could. If he wasn't so busy with his own local car club (Capital Area MoPars) and Factory Appearing Stock Tires drag racing, I'd beg him to take over the Hudson Valley POC and run for POC President in the next election.

[Young Ed]

I believe they are going up 4-5 bucks a year. Dick is the only one of the 3 that I believe I have met as his group hosted the Oconomowoc meet.

[Captain Neon]

I don't have any problems with the dues increasing to $30. I just remember looking at the brochure for the national meet in California a couple of years ago and suffered from sticker shock. Most of us involved with old cars are blue collar guys so wine-tastings and vineyard tours and I can't remember what all else now struck me as very high-brow. If Nick wants to have a national club that caters to that crowd, well, I'm really not interested. I'm much more interested in factory tours and visits to the racetrack. Stuff like that. I'm sure that Nick's a decent enough guy, but that's not my scene at all. For the national club to do much more than it already does, it will need to consider hiring staff and with that comes dues increases for all of us.

[Young Ed]

Ben we felt that way about some of the events in WI too. After complaining about the late dinner at detroit the Wi one was even later. We also skipped their overpriced fish fry on friday night. We did later find out that some of the high prices were related to the hotel jacking up prices after the meet was scheduled.

[greg g]

I fought several inclanations to take a marker and add IN to the sign for the hospitality suite. Each time my wife went in eyes rolled among the gathered folks in the yellow shirts.

Some one at the registration table was overheard asking if Those Dam tailgaters were still at it? The other alternative was what sitting around looking at her sour puss????

Alot of nice folks in attendence but the committee was with an exception of two not very welcoming. Guess cause we didn't know or want to know the secret handshake.

Edited September 29, 2009 by greg g

[Captain Neon]

The youngster 18 year old senior i High school, brough his Dodge lance back for display on Sat, not to be judged just wanted to park it and have folks look at it. He was told he needed to register for the event they wanted his to pay the full 50 dollar fee to park his car. Some quite unnecessary coments were over heard so he and his friend left. here is a kid who is a mopar enthusiast and is putting together a rather rare factory slant 6 4 speed Baracuda. Might make an interesting car for future Plymouth events, but I doubt after that he will have much need for the club. Why not let the kid in, suggest if he can make a contribution to the club that would be nice, if he can't well come on in. As chet mentioned the show was poorly attended by the public as there was no promotion of it, but there were lots of folks out and about in the area.

I remember showing up without a car just to look around at the national meet the Heart of America region hosted near the Kansas City Airport in '97. I was in town from Minnesota visiting my brother. I felt unwelcome. No one wanted to talk about their cars with me, and I was kind of shooed away from people's cars that I was looking at. These guys were interested in getting trophies and they didn't have time for some "young hotrodder" messing up their cars with his grubby fingerprints.

I have to agree that it is was poor judgment on the part of the Mid-Atlantic Region to shoo those kids off and demand a $50 registration fee, esp. when he didn't want a trophy and was sticking around for the banquet.

I've seen too many times where events are purposely planned at expensive hotels and convention centers with expensive buffets and entertainment to keep the riff-raff out. I don't have much time for that any more. Despite all of the POC's problems in attracting new members, I'd hate to see it go that way.

[Young Ed]

Thats not the first time thats happened either. It happened to me in Peoria. Wouldn't let me park dads 63 valiant convert with the other cars because I didn't pay to register it.

[Captain Neon]

Since Carl VanBibber is the President of the Mid-Atlantic Region, the sponsors of the last POC national meet, I'd have to say that he is most responsible for the behaviour and actions of those running the meet. He had the authourity, if he felt that things were being handled poorly, to step in and correct these unwelcoming behaviours.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Gentlemen...this is not just a POC problem..this is pretty much the same with all clubs and events...it is hard to make everyone happy..but to admit that fresh new blood is needed for the orginazation to survive and thrive then stifle any attempt to become familiar and demand total committment upfront is actually a main reason the membership is lacking and drives away potential members..I am sure that the local host chapter may have lost their chance to increase their numbers, support and influx of funds to continue.

[Captain Neon]

What it seems to me from both Greg's and Ed's reports, that none of these three guys has a clue how to attract younger blue collar guys interested in old Plymouths. The current POC leadership is more interested in attracting more affluent retirees, and just enjoying the ride and being with their old friends until it is too late to recover.

[Young Ed]

For sure Tim. And I understand the position they are in. If they let one person in for free then the next time more people will expect the same

[Young Ed]

What it seems to me from both Greg's and Ed's reports, that none of these three guys has a clue how to attract younger blue collar guys interested in old Plymouths. The current POC leadership is more interested in attracting more affluent retirees, and just enjoying the ride and being with their old friends until it is too late to recover.

I cant really say that either way. I honestly don't know any of the 3 guys well enough. I know someone on the POC board who I'm sure knows these 3 guys well. I'll see if I can get his opinion

[Don Coatney]

Is it time to start a new PTC (Plymouth Tailgaters Club) club? Makes me wonder what is the point of attending a POC national meet that makes everyone (myself included) feel unwelcome. I am happy with no entry fee, no judging, no trophies, no bull $hit, but good food, and good fellowship.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I could understand their very point IF that drop-in was wanting to be judge, making use of the hospitality suite or trying to barge in on an awards dinner etc..oft times folks are curious to drop in..they just got their car..want to see what is a-stir so to say...sad part is that their first encouter is now a bitter experience....I have also seen them leary of newcomers to the club as some of the old stand bys fear losing position or lose "control" of "their" club. But rules are rules and by laws exist to protect the interest of all and keep the playing field level to some degree..the cost of facilities to host these events ae not cheap..insurance and entertainment, flyer/publishing, catering etc is skyrocketing every day..

anyone I think entertaining a POC event would be wise to first be in good standing with a local chapter and I do believe this is part of their charter..

[Captain Neon]

As I've said, I realise that I can't change the current culture at the POC National meets. I can't fix the regions. I just want to keep getting Lanny's magazine, the Plymouth Bulletin, at the least cost. This may sound defeatist, but who of the three approved candidates is least likely to make big changes because all three's changes will only make things worse? I don't even know how many people typically vote in a POC election, and if there are enough of us here that could elect a write-in candidate. If I thought that we had that much clout over here, then the decision would be easy. I typically don't vote in these things, but I want to send some sort of a message that some may take notice of. I know that my one ballot is not going to make the difference. I am trying to decide if the handful of us here that are still members of the POC can be enough to elect the least of three evils (and decide who he might be), or if our voice is more effective by committing to vote for one write-in candidate.

[Captain Neon]

Is it time to start a new PTC (Plymouth Tailgaters Club) club? Makes me wonder what is the point of attending a POC national meet that makes everyone (myself included) feel unwelcome. I am happy with no entry fee, no judging, no trophies, no bull $hit, but good food, and good fellowship.

When I was a student at the University of Minnesota, I was a fly in the ointment in the student government association (MN Student Assoc.). A couple times per year, all of the Big 10 schools sponsored a meeting of the Association of Big 10 Schools. I was involved in a chapter of a political organisation that also happened to have chapters at all of the other Big 10 schools. We talked about having an alternative to the ABTS, where those of us that tended to be a pain in the bumm at our SGA could get together to commisserate and plot. It never took off.

I see something similar already happening with the POC being analogous to the ABTS, and this forum being analogous to the alternative gathering at the same time and approximate location. In Maryland, us that frequent this forum were referred to as the Tailgaters.

[RobertKB]

I just went to the General Discussion of the POC and Captain Neon's question has been viewed 4 times with no responses. The identical question starts this thread and has been viewed 76 times with 20 responses. Kind of says it all. I was a POC member for one year and although I think the magazine is great I got a bit tired of all the photos of winners at POC events. There were some great articles and great pictures and it is put together very well but is not enough reason for me to be in the POC. There is actually a region based near me in Calgary, Alberta (Western Canada Region) but I just feel it will be filled with stuffed shirts and not people out to drive and enjoy their cars. I hope I am wrong.

I have a '53 Plymouth that is original in most respects including paint and I have been told my ' 48 Dodge D25 would also qualify as it is based on a Plymouth. However, the Dodge has a truck engine, a grey painted dash, wrong upholstery, etc. It drives great and is driven lots but probably is "not up to snuff" so to speak. They really need to encourage people with minor modifications to feel welcome. I can understand them not wanting hot rods but I really think in the long run the POC will die unless there is some change in rules and attitude.

[Captain Neon]

I am firmly in support of standards in judging and have no problems with the POC choosing the factory specifications to be used when judging. What I oppose is their minimum point requirements. If no cars in a particular class do not garner enough points to meet certain levels then there no one gets that trophy. It is possible at a POC national meet, for several cars to show up in a class, but none of them get a trophy if none of them are good enough by POC standards. It has happened often that they don't give a 1st place trophy since none of the cars in the class were good enough. I've even seen one time where there was no second place trophy, but a first and a third. I think that would go a long way towards those of us that don't have perfect cars, but want to get judged either to get advise on what is correct or want a trophy for a nice looking car.

I looked at the flyer that the Cascade Region has posted on the POC website and they are planning on having an "honored guest" area where any car 25 years or older will be parked in a special area but not judged. Depending on where this "honoured guest" parking is, it may mitigate the problems of curious on-lookers being chased off if they don't want to be judged, but would like people to scope out their cars.

I got tired of car shows a couple of years ago. Local shows either expect entrants to spend too much time on-site or all of the cars are the same, usu. just Chevelles and Mustangs. I like the bigger shows with more variety, but nowadays I just don't have the time off available to travel and attend. I prefer car cruises to car shows.

[Norm's Coupe]

No offense to anyone, but I'm amazed at the members complaining about various things they really don't like. Yet, they keep renewing their membership. If I didn't like a club or something that much, I simply wouldn't join. In fact, that's why I dropped out of the POC in the late 90's. People were OK but didn't like their rules.

That said, I can see the POC or any other car show or club not allowing a car to park in the show area, if the car was not a paid entrant. That's how the clubs make some of their money is from the shows. If they were to allow one unpaid entrant this time, next time no one would want to pay to enter their car in the show, whether it's judged or not. There have been several shows in the past years that my brother in law and I drove our cars to shows we were not entered in (not together though). Each time, we always parked in the general parking area, or on the street outside the show area with all the other general spectators. Sometimes someone in the show would see us and try to get us to enter the show (of course by paying), but we simply say no, because we don't want to sit there all day. When we do that, we just look at the cars and talk to some of the owners, then leave. So........I have to agree with the POC on that point. Even if you are a member of the club, you still didn't pay the entrance fee for that car, at that show, so it shouldn't be allowed to park in the show car area.

I've been invited to join in at the local POC club events from time to time. Each time I've declined. Not because of the people. I've met several of them and are all nice people. But.......if I do join in their meets/activities I know they will expect me to join the club, which I don't want to do. So.....I've never taken them up on it for that reason. I'd feel like a free loader if I did take them up on it, then didn't join. And, that's probably the biggest reason I didn't stop in on the national POC meet in Oconomowoc, WI this past summer, which was almost in my backyard.

[Captain Neon]

I have to agree w/ Norm's comment about getting to park w/ the show cars. However, I think, perhaps, the POC needs to have a smaller fee for folks that just want to display but not be judged or attend the evening banquet. I also think that Chet made a good point about promoting the show to the local public. It's really not that difficult or expensive to get fliers displayed at the local auto parts stores or even to have it listed in the local paper. I would think w/ the POC's ever declining numbers they would want to use their national meets as a way to promote their club to the locals. Instead of it being a chore or a duty, local regions would once again clamour for the opportunity to get some really nice Plymouths into town and make people aware of their local POC.

From what I can see, I get what I want from the POC, a nice magazine, and the $30 I'll pay at renewal is worth the cost. However, if the POC starts becoming very top-down and paying for inter-regional activities and functions that can't support themselves thus needing to increase dues, or if there is a need to have paid staff to coordinate these inter-regional functions. Then, yeah, I'll probably leave because I'm not getting my money's worth, and I'm being forced to subsidise someone else's hobby with my dues.

There are a small group of people in the POC that REALLY like the national meets. There is a certain amount of cost in putting them on. There may come a point if the current trends of ever-decreasing attendance continue when the registration fees won't cover the costs that the ruling elite are willing to pay so then the cost will go to peons like me that have no intentions of going, through our dues.

I want the POC to have people come to their meets so they can be self-supporting and it doesn't affect my dues. I want people attending to have a good experience so that there are enough members so that the POC can continue to put out a first class magazine through the economies of scale. Otherwise, my dues are going to have to go up because they 1) have to hire some one when Lanny decides to hang it up, and 2) the per issue cost goes up just because there aren't enough of us subscribing any more.

The individuals that like to go to shows and get trophies should get their chance at a trophy. It is a waste when a second or third place trophy is purchased, but not given simply because the point threshold wasn't met. If there are 5 cars in a class and there are three trophies available, then three guys should go home with a trophy and not two, one, or none. Makes everyone happy. Folks that want trophies get them so they are happy and continue their membership, and the POC doesn't have wasted trophies. A lot of guys complain about the POC being too purist, doesn't matter to me, I'm not gunning for trophies. Some guys like their trophies and there is no better way to get a trophy-hunter upset than to be the 3rd best car in the class and not get a trophy because the best car in the class can't take home first place because he didn't get enough points and took the 2nd place trophy.

If I really had a gripe, I'd write a letter to be published in the Plymouth Bulletin, and watch for the fall-out. I'm enough of a realist that I'm not always going to like everything. I'd starve and go about naked if I didn't choose to settle for things weren't my preferred choice. I settle for a Big Mac because I may want a Whopper, but I'm hungry and there's no Burger King around; only McDonald's.

At this point, I am seeing several obituaries published in the Plymouth Bulletin, and no wedding or birth announcements. When I joined over 22 years ago, there may have been a few obits. a year, and every issue had at least one picture of a proud father driving his daughter to prom or her wedding in his Plymouth. I am concerned that the POC isn't having new younger members. I get annoyed when I read about and witness actions and behaviours that can only discourage people from joining whether they be a kid that just got a Plymouth or a guy that likes trophies and has the nicest car at his local shows and expects to bring home a trophy from his first national meet.