Dodge starting issues

[clubcoupe]

I've replaced the cap, button and the points on this thing, I have fire to the points and to the plugs, but it still won't hit. I checked the timing and it's right also. The spark plugs look fine and the wires I'm using were were on my 52, but I put new ones on it even though it didn't need it so the wires should be good. I'm getting fire to every plug. It is getting fuel, I've even tried a little starting fluid and it wouldn't hit off that.

I've done away with the ignition wires and I'm just running a hot wire from the battery to the coil and cranking it with a starter switch I made to hook up to the solenoid. (Same way I always do when I have one sitting on the ground and firing up.)

It fired up once a few days ago for about 10 seconds and I haven't been able to get it to start since.

It's showing 120lb compression in each cylinder cold...

Anyone got any ideas?

What would be the correct way this coil should be hooked up to the distributor? I never changed anything, but I switched the wires just to see and still nothing.

Dave

[Don Coatney]

It sure sounds to me like you have a timing issue.

[clubcoupe]

That's what I've been thinking too, but it seem to be right.

I took number 1 plug out and took the cap off the distributor and turned it until number 1 piston was at the top. The rotor button is sitting right on number 1. I've also tried adjusting it some both ways while cranking it and never got it to hit.

This is the first Dodge Flathead I've had to work on, I've owned Pontiac and Ford Flathead's and never had any trouble getting one started.

If there's something different about this Dodge, someone let me know...

[Don Coatney]

Where are you located?

[clubcoupe]

I'm outside of Fayetteville, WV.

The firing order is right. I got that information out of my Chilton's manual.

[grey beard]

Your number one piston can be at top dead center and your rotor pointing to the number one plug wire - and you can still be 180 degrees out of time. The number one piston goes to top dead center twice for each single turn of the distributor rotor.

Better see if your number one piston is on the compression stroke as it comes up to top dead center, and THEN look see where yer rotor's a'pointin.

Good Luck

Let us know who wins . . . you or the car.

[Don Coatney]

It is also very easy to be one post "off" with the wires in the distributor cap. Ben there done that:eek:

Edited September 7, 2009 by Don Coatney

[clubcoupe]

I'll check the wires and timing again tomorrow after work.

It may think it's awinnin, but I'll get my cherry picker involved in this situation...then we'll see who's winning.

If that sucker wants to purr down the road again it'll start or be replaced with something that will haha

I'll keep you all updated on what happens

Dave

[clubcoupe]

Your number one piston can be at top dead center and your rotor pointing to the number one plug wire - and you can still be 180 degrees out of time. The number one piston goes to top dead center twice for each single turn of the distributor rotor.

Wouldn't it at least backfire? Pop? crack? do something? It hasn't made a sound other than cranking.

I just helped a friend put a RD450 in a 1958 Diamond T water truck and we had the distributor 180 out and it would backfire through the carburetor. I'm not getting anything at all on mine.

I'll check the wires again though. I have number 1 on the bottom left of the distributor cap I think 2 post before the clip.

Dave

[greg g]

Carefully recheck the wires, make sure they are not only in the correct firing order but that number one is indeed indexed for number one. When I first tried to start my fresh rebuild, I had a similar situation. Found I was one tower off. Also make sure your coil wire is firmly seated at both ends.

[kevinanderson]

After no starts, will it ever start and now what the hell is wrong, I broke down and bought a new coil. Good grief. It now pops off on the third spin - cold and hot.

[Merle Coggins]

I remember when I first fired up my engine I found I had the distributor in 180 off. Once that was corrected I also cranked and cranked with no luck. I knew I had spark and my timing was close enough to make it start. I finally opened up the throttle a little bit and it fired up.

You've mentioned over and over that you have your timing correct and that you have spark at the plugs. But you've never once stated that you have fuel. Of course I'm sure you already know that you need both fuel and spark at the correct time to make fire.

So, going back to my original statement, if your idle circuit is plugged up it may not start unless you give it a little throttle.

Merle

[Jim Saraceno]

Did you once have the engine running and if so, when did it stop.

If you have never had the engine running check to see if the timing marker on the front of the engine is in the right place. Pull the small plug over #6 cylinder and put a rod down the hole so you can see when the piston is at TDC.

They have changed those timing marks over the years. When I rebuilt an engine I bought I couldn't get the thing to start. I checked the TDC using that method and found that my timing cover mark and my pulley marks were off by 15-20 degrees.

[clubcoupe]

It runs! Finally... I took all the plugs out and sprayed around each hole

with some carburetor cleaner then lit it on fire. Waited until it burned out and then put a set of new plugs in it and it fired right up on the first spin.

Engine sounds good and the clutch works, goes into all gears good.

I'll post a video of the engine running after while.

Dave

[Plymouthy Adams]

Good deal, it is not at all hard to splash foul plugs...though when pulled and tested for spark they fire..but under compression..forget about it...

[Don G 1947]

Good deal, it is not at all hard to splash foul plugs...though when pulled and tested for spark they fire..but under compression..forget about it...

Tim,

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

Thanks,

Don

[Plymouthy Adams]

it is not at all hard to flood an engine so bad that the plugs become spash fouled per say..poor hits while trying to start an engine in this condition will lead to sooty plugs..contunue the excess raw fuel and this saturates the soot in the ceramic..I have seen this so many times..the last TR6 I worked on was this condition..would get an occassional hit and sometimes try to run but very very poorly..cleaned the plugs in the sandblasted..instant start, balanced the carbs and requested the owner to buy fresh new plugs and as the ceramic has been abraded by the sandblasting..but we did get it running that way..a two strok engine is even more prone to hard/no start with this condition..

[clubcoupe]

I fired it back up a little while ago and even drove it down the street. I'm feeling a little bit better about this project now haha.

The accelerator pump in the carburetor isn't working very good, but I did manage to make it down the street. It idles fine though.

Anyone know how much count these "Fluid-Drive" transmissions were? Is it something I should think about keeping, or converting to a 3 speed straight drive transmission? My plans for the car are to build a mild 50's-60's era custom out of it. I'm not planning on going all out with it, just doing some minor things.

Here is the video...

[Niel Hoback]

Meaning?

[Plymouthy Adams]

you can count on these units to be very dependable and tough..sluggish is often a descriptor..the draw back is as Greg pointed out earlier..there is no direct link between the engine and tranny thus you do not have the engine working as a brake..you will need to park and set the brake accordingly..chocks may apply in places in the WV hills..

[Jacqualine47]

You know, my grandfather showed me an old trick to see if your coil is bad without buying a new one (moot for you now, but good for future reference)... he'd unplug a plugwire, stick in a spare sparkplug, and lay it on a towel on the fender. Hit the starter, and you can see if the plug is actually firing. Quick and dirty (and not exactly 'safe') but I've used it before when I've been broke down out of state with minimal tools/money (I had a 71 chevelle that put me on the side of the road... finally found out it wasn't getting spark, and traced it to a wire that had been severed in between the ignition switch and the firewall).

[Don Coatney]

Meaning?

Neil;

As a hoosier you should understand "count". Members of my family used that term such as "that no count SOB". "Unless we get some rain the corn will be no count this year".

[Niel Hoback]

I see, must be a shortened version of "account". Up here in Lake county we don't speak the same language as other Hoosiers. Guess I should have figured that out though. Hey, I'm retired, I don't have to think if I don't want to.

[clubcoupe]

I never thought much about what I was typing or I'd had made myself a little more clear

I found out yesterday while I was driving it that the transmission will not slow you down like a manual will and hold the car also. If I can find me a regular 3 speed or a parts car to get the parts from, I'll probably just convert it. I don't want to have to worry about anything when I park the car and most places around here are hilly.

Also with all the mountains, I like to be able to shift to a lower gear and not have to ride the brakes.

I appreciate all the help I've gotten...

Dave

[greg g]

Dave refresh our memories, is your car a three speed or a semi automatic??? In either case the fluid drive unit was a bout 98% effective (which was quite a bit more than the contemporary Hyrdomatic at GM) It will give you a little bit of freewheeling feel under deceleration but shouldn't be like shifting to neutral and coasting, there should still be a good bit of compression braking.

Next time out try this if you have a three speed:

stop the car, with your foot on the brake, shift the trans into 2nd gear and let the clutch out, the car should be able to remain at idle. now releas the brake and WOT the gas pedal. Your car should be able to accelerate fairly briskly to 40 without any trouble.

Stop and repeat the same procedure in high gear. You should be able to start from a stop and accelerate to ay road speed without shifting ( aceleration will be sluggish but should be smooth and linear right up to cruise.