Woodstock

[Don Jordan]

There is so much talk and press about Woodstock and the 40 year anniversary.

This doesn't really have anything to do with Plymouths but I never heard of Woodstock. I was in Chu Lai, Vietnam in 1969. That was my lost year. I guess the only wood stock I knew about was my M 14.

Just a thought.

[RobertKB]

They say that if everybody who now claims to have been at the famous Woodstock of 1969, it would have been 10 times the size it was. It has become a cultural event thats remembered importance is greater than it actually was at the time.

[Captain Neon]

I must concur with Robert. From what I can gather about Woodstock it was a huge failure. This failure was exacerbated by the poor security and planning that made for a truly frightful experience. Retell the story ten years later through rose-coloured glasses mixed w/ wistful memories of those now nostalgic for their lost youth and you have a cultural phenomenon.

The most important things to be gleaned from Woodstock are that it is a prime example of how NOT to organise a music festival.

[1940plymouth]

We live approx 25 miles from Bethel,NY, which is the original site of Woodstock. The local papers and radio stations have been hyping the 40th Anniversary for a long time, and still are reporting about the happenings over the past weekend.

I was in the Air Force during the original Woodstock and made the mistake of coming home on the bus. When we got off the bus at the bus station in Monticello, the bus station was full of wet, cold dirty young people, that is what I remember, not to mention a very long trip on the bus because of all the backed up traffic

[Dennis Hemingway]

The first part of 69 I was a member of the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club.

We then went out and recovered Apollo 11. Then at the end of 69 I finished my enlistment and got out of the Navy, so I didn't have time for Woodstock.

Dennis:D

[Plymouthy Adams]

for many veterans, Woodstock would be considered hunting over a baited field..

[55 Fargo]

1969 was only 8 years old, Woodstock meant nothing to me, was too involved in summer actitivites and being out of school.

Wanting to go fishing was probably a high on my list actiivity that summer, my future wife to be was also born that summer.....

[eric wissing]

I was 14 at the time and would have loved to have been there then but am glad now I didn't go. A lot of mud and a lot of so-so music. Still a couple hundred thousand kids having a good time and was anyone killed? I am sure more than a few drunks killed themselves and others that weekend.

I don't think it was about "Stopping the War" as much as having a good time. Politics aside I think that the War was about freedom? Whose? Only those who fought and believed? I guess being not of the "Greatest Generation" we don't have much say!! They fought for us to be free and guess what we were and are, LOL Really it was about getting stoned, having fun, SEX, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. Eric

[HalfdollarMayflower]

Gentlemen, thanks for your service to our fine country!

I wasn't even a twinkle in my daddy's eye when woodstock took place...in fact, my father was only a sophomore in High School, and my mother in 8th grade. Both were raised by vets (paternal grandfather a WWII vet and maternal grandfather a Korean war vet)...so its doubtful they would have gone even if provided the opportunity. Folks where I come from understand that freedom is purchased at a precious cost...and although peace is a virtuous cause, hippie-types tend to walk on their "fightin' side."

[HalfdollarMayflower]

I don't think it was about "Stopping the War" as much as having a good time. Politics aside I think that the War was about freedom? Whose? Only those who fought and believed? I guess being not of the "Greatest Generation" we don't have much say!! They fought for us to be free and guess what we were and are, LOL Really it was about getting stoned, having fun, SEX, Drugs and Rock'n'Roll. Eric

Having not been there, I can't say for sure...but what I've heard from vets (from various conflicts) is that, at least in their minds, our wars are typically not imperialistic in nature...we don't fight for natural resources, expansion of territory, or economic gain. To many of them, we fight for those who cannot fight for themselves.

I realize there are many others who feel differently.

[greg g]

Well having been there, I can say it was a singularly an apolitical gathering. There were some protest songs from several groups, and Jimi Hedrix's version of the National Anthem was a bit grating, but nothing from the organizers. In fact Abby Hoffman jumped on stage as the Who were playing, trying to make some statement regarding something politacal. After about 30 seconds, Pete Towsand smacked him with his guitar and pushed him off the stage.

Aside from the mud, lack of food and sanitary facilities, the music was mostly terrible, due second class talent, and to a hastilly thrown soundsystem with speakers from demolished movie theaters.

Went with a group of friends, and we left after running out of food. I was in the Army reserve at the time, heading off to basic training about three weeks later. Stayed away from the brown acid, but probably got a contact high from all the second hand smoke.

By that time I beleive pretty much everyone was in agreement that the war in Vietnam was untenable and that further expenses in lives, and rescouces was futile. Hmmm wonder why that sounds familiar? Just that the government had to figure a way out without loosing face. Read former Secretary of Defense Robert Mc Namara's memoirs for the answers from the horses mouth.

[randroid]

Gents,

I was 4-F due to surgery on my left ankle but, being the son of a USMC Night Fighter Pilot and having been raised in the heart of conservative Republicanism (Orange County, CA), and during an era in which the parents of all of my friends were paying doctors to say their sons weren't eligible for the draft, I lied to get into the Navy. Knowing I had an 'easy out' didn't hurt.

The 'Nam era was unlike anything before in many ways, but to put it succinctly I have been to three World Fairs, two hog callings, and a duck f##king contest and there has never been anything that measured up to 'Nam until GW wanted to do a one-up on his Daddy.

I recall sailing up the Saigon River and seeing a Shell Oil Company petroleum refinery being rebuilt after being hit by rocket fire, and when we came back down three weeks later it was being rebuilt again. Sound like a familiar reason for going to war?

I never got stoned aboard ship, I rarely got stoned during my enlistment even when visiting friends at home, and I rarely get stoned today, but if there was ever any justification for massive dose of unreality it was during that time.

Perhaps if what occurred then wasn't glossed-over in schools today there wouldn't be such apathy toward the antics 'leaders' are committing with our sons and daughters today.

If you didn't serve then, you might have a difficult time conceiving the basic attitude of the American people toward it. If you did serve then and disagree with me I will defend your opinion to my death, but if the government ever wants me to serve again they'll need to burn the forest and sift the ashes to find me.

-Randy

[Captain Neon]

Having not been there, I can't say for sure...but what I've heard from vets (from various conflicts) is that, at least in their minds, our wars are typically not imperialistic in nature...we don't fight for natural resources, expansion of territory, or economic gain. To many of them, we fight for those who cannot fight for themselves.

I realize there are many others who feel differently.

Without getting too political, it is hard to argue that the Spanish or Mexican Wars were about anything other than expanding US territory and "Manifest Destiny."

IMHO, all US wars since the War of 1812 there were those that encouraged and set things into motion for economic gain.

Once my USMC Viet Nam vet uncle felt my brother and I were old enough, I developed a deeper understanding of what happened over there and I have to agree with Randy. As I calmly commented to a USAF MP that was overly proud of his service at Khe San, "My Marine uncle tells the tale a little differently than you, and he has no flattering things to say about USAF MP's at Khe San."

That shut him up for a few minutes.

[greg g]

Well as far as wars for oil are concerned looks like most of the fighting would need to be on this side of the Ocean. Apparently we get more oil from the Virgin Islands than we do from Iraq. July 09 figures below. So as far as protecting vital economic interest abroad, it looks like our abroad should be a bit closer to home.

Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries)

(Thousand Barrels per Day)

Country May-09 Apr-09 YTD 2009 May-08 YTD 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 2,206 2,281 2,395 2,367 2,539

VENEZUELA 1,341 891 1,168 1,171 1,160

MEXICO 1,186 1,289 1,292 1,220 1,319

SAUDI ARABIA 1,079 1,021 1,109 1,604 1,543

RUSSIA 813 779 649 460 421

NIGERIA 600 733 649 918 1,106

ANGOLA 505 462 566 476 478

BRAZIL 386 278 367 338 233

VIRGIN ISLANDS 313 290 313 340 341

ALGERIA 272 612 489 620 546

IRAQ 263 484 490 583 670

UNITED KINGDOM 250 424 261 237 211

COLOMBIA 243 347 277 278 210

ECUADOR 193 237 233 162 203

NORWAY 171 112 129 183 117

[randroid]

Norm,

I respect you and the original intent of your post, and will say no more about it. Whether or not you were offended by anything I said is irrelevant; I'll step out of character for a moment and keep my opinions to myself. This is not the forum for such discussion.

-Randy

[T120]

Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries)

(Thousand Barrels per Day)

Country May-09 Apr-09 YTD 2009 May-08 YTD 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 2,206 2,281 2,395 2,367 2,539

VENEZUELA 1,341 891 1,168 1,171 1,160

MEXICO 1,186 1,289 1,292 1,220 1,319

SAUDI ARABIA 1,079 1,021 1,109 1,604 1,543

RUSSIA 813 779 649 460 421

NIGERIA 600 733 649 918 1,106

ANGOLA 505 462 566 476 478

BRAZIL 386 278 367 338 233

VIRGIN ISLANDS 313 290 313 340 341

ALGERIA 272 612 489 620 546

IRAQ 263 484 490 583 670

UNITED KINGDOM 250 424 261 237 211

COLOMBIA 243 347 277 278 210

ECUADOR 193 237 233 162 203

NORWAY 171 112 129 183 117

...Nice to see we are at the top of the list...And remain friendly

Edited August 18, 2009 by Ralph D25cpe

[RobertKB]

CANADA 2,206 2,281 2,395 2,367 2,539

VENEZUELA 1,341 891 1,168 1,171 1,160

MEXICO 1,186 1,289 1,292 1,220 1,319

SAUDI ARABIA 1,079 1,021 1,109 1,604 1,543

RUSSIA 813 779 649 460 421

NIGERIA 600 733 649 918 1,106

ANGOLA 505 462 566 476 478

BRAZIL 386 278 367 338 233

VIRGIN ISLANDS 313 290 313 340 341

ALGERIA 272 612 489 620 546

IRAQ 263 484 490 583 670

UNITED KINGDOM 250 424 261 237 211

COLOMBIA 243 347 277 278 210

ECUADOR 193 237 233 162 203

NORWAY 171 112 129 183 117

Yeah, so don't piss us off or we'll turn the taps off. No more gas/oil for your flatties! That's 2.2 million barrels of oil a day which is about the same as all of Canada uses each day. Man, has this thread digressed into many different topics. I love it!

[HalfdollarMayflower]

Ditto...I do love the fact that, despite different perspectives the folks on this board remain civil. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[greg g]

Turn off the taps, turns off the money.................54 40 or fight!!!!!! Time to gin up the Polk ists again. Annex the oil sands.

[greg g]

Norm, It's because the b@$+@rds in power don't listen to polite input that people take to the streets.

Something about freedom to assemble to redress grievences.

[greg g]

40 k for the Volt, fossil fuel engine only runs to recharge the batteries.

[RobertKB]

40 k for the Volt, fossil fuel engine only runs to recharge the batteries.

I have always said hydrogen cars were a red herring. Far better to use two proven technologies. I really think that is the wave of the future. As stated, if GM does it, everyone will follow suit and our dependence on fossil fuels will lessen dramatically.

[T120]

...We need that car really bad up here in Alberta.Hard to believe, but we had numerous gas stations closed this month because there was no gasoline..Go figure?

[RobertKB]

...We need that car really bad up here in Alberta.Hard to believe, but we had numerous gas stations closed this month because there was no gasoline..Go figure?

Big storms on Edmonton's refinery row caused some minor damage but enough to give us shortages, especially the higher octane fuels. Imagine what it would be like with something major. Bring on the Volt.

[greg g]

Norm it's a 15 K car with 25K worth of batteries. The thing that worries me about this technology is the same worry associated to atomic energy. What happens to all those batteries at the ed of their lives? I suppose anything is recyclable but at what cost.

I read some where that the typical life cycle for the batteries in a Toyota Prius is around 6 years, The change out will cost in the 10K zip code. Who is gonna spend 10K for maintanence on a 6 year old vehicle, and then what happens if you choose not to, the dealer does it and then tries to sell a 6 year old car for 10k plus. Hopefully battery echnology will proceed at a rapid enough pace to deal with these situations.

The Volt is different technoloy in that there is no connection between the fossil fuel powerplant and the ground. Its just there to refresh the bats, and if you only use the car for local trips, and plug in at night it concievable that it would never run, assuming you don't turn on the light, run the fan and or AC, and keep the sterio and othere stuff.

I believe if you read the fine print the total distance you can cover is still some what limited based on your ability to maintain charge. the other aspect is when you plug it in at night how much is it going to suck through your houses meter????