Dodge 25C Special Deluxe Coupe - Demisters

[Richard Coney]

Hi Folks,

I've just joined the forum and this my first posting. I'm in the UK and am seriously considering a D25C coupe in the next few days. Although I've owned a number of American cars over the years (unusual for a Brit) I've always wanted a 40s car and a post-war Plymouth/Dodge coupe particularly. It seems as if I've chosen the best of both worlds with the D25C.

My initial question is this: The car was an export model that ended up in Brazil before being sent to England in the 1980s. It appears never to have had a heater, and as a result has no demister slots in the metal screen surround. I'm sure I can source a suitable heater, (though an original would be great), but how difficult is it likely for me to source a replacement surround with the necessary screen demisters? I don't want to cut the original about.

I would also like to update the chrome, including the Plymouth style rear lights and the heavy chrome grille. Any ideas where I should start to look please? Any and all help would be gratefully received.

If anyone is interested, regardless of whether I do the dastardly deed and buy the car this forthcoming weekend, (most likely if it drives OK) I can let you have some pictures I took at the show where I first saw the car.

Thanks in advance for any advice and help.

Regards,

Richard

[greg g]

look closley at the windshield surround you will see the slightest of a bulge in it at the bottom of the windshield. In the picture look between the regisration sticker and where you can see the windshield wiper are, you can see the bend in the garnish. It is basically a louver like bend in the samping. Below it is a slot cut into the dashboard stamping, and below that should be a difuser on each side up uder the dash. I have the model 36 heater which is basically a box that bolts to the firewall in teh pass side footwell. It is equiped with a cable controlled lever that opens s flap to feed an outlet from the heater. This outlet is then ducted with flex hose to the difusers.

However, since it is basically recirculating interior air, it retains any moisture it picks up and is not very effective in keeping the inside of the windscreen clear. Actually a couple of micro fibre towels or a chamois are more effective unless you live in a low humidity part of the British Isles (if such a place exists) you should have a couple owels inthe car.

Do a search on ebay auto for Arvin, they made aftermarket heaters during the era, and you can get an idea of what the system looks like. I don't have any pictures of mine to show you.

Here is a pic from ebay showing a very similar aftermarket heater. If you notice the square hole, this would be where the demist ducting would be attached. These units are self contained withthe core and the blower in the box, you control the heat by opening the flaps by hand.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1930s-1950-Car-heater_W0QQitemZ250475598556QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3a518252dc&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

The Dodge Grill castings do appear on ebay from time to time. I have a ebay search saved as a favorite for 194* Plymouth the asterisk serves to tell the search to include all digits from 0 to 9 so it basically pulls all thing listed for plymouth for the 40's you might want to do one for Plymouth and another for Dodge since you car is basically a plymouth with dodge trim.

Check back if you decide to buy. Good luck.

[RobertKB]

Welcome to the best forum on the WWW. Sounds like you will be buying a car very similar to the 1948 Dodge D25 Club Coupe that I own. Yours was likely made in Canada and even being shipped to Brazil, I doubt that it would not have the slots in the dash and bulges mentioned for window defroster as it is known in Canada. Good luck with the purchase. If your car has a back seat, it is a club coupe but if it does not it is the business coupe and there are some slight differences in them. The tail light bezels are common on ebay but be careful if buying the brake light surround. They are different for the coupe than for the sedan. They are just like the Plymouth one but with Dodge printed into it. The grilles are hard to come by for the D25 but do occasionally show up on ebay. They are heavy potmetal and chromed and consist of many pieces. I have attached a picture of my coupe (dark blue) and it you go to http://www.merc583.addr.com/mopar/framesets/welcomeframeset.html and scroll down to "Why a combined P15-D24 site?" and click on Dodge D25 Model, that is my car and it shows some up close pictures of the chrome on these cars. The lighter coloured coupe is another forum member's and he belongs to the same car club I do.

Edited August 7, 2009 by RobertKB

[claybill]

HI...WELCOME. I BOUGHT SPARE HEATER a year or so ago..fan works, just beeds painted and assembled. stock mopar brand..for sale if you ever need it. simple installation.

bill

[BobT-47P15]

Or, there is the Mopar Model 54 heater.......like this. I have this model in

my 47 Plym.

It also has a connector for the windshield defroster hoses.

As was stated.....they are only effective a limited amount.

Mopar made a defroster duct kit.....had two ducts that attached

under the dash at the openings provided......then attach a hose to

them from the heater. this particular one is from a Chevy....just to

give the idea of their appearance.

Edited August 7, 2009 by BobT-47P15

[Richard Coney]

Hey Guys, that was REALLY helpful. Thanks a bunch. It seems that I've stumbled upon a great forum. For the record, unless the car drives really badly its most likely that I'll get her. She's a very pretty car to my eye and the rear seats make her far more practical than most coupes of the era. I've been studying the pictures I took at the show I mentioned for several weeks now and the Dodge appears to be just what I want and at a price that my, admittedly limited, budget can afford.

With regard to the heater/defroster, I hopefully have attached some pictures. On the window surround you will see there are the bulges described, but I don't recall them being opened up. As far as I am aware the car was never fitted with a heater.

Bill, I may well take up your offer of the heater in due course, if I cannot source one in the UK. Thank you very much.

Robert, your coupe is very similar to "mine". With regard to the grille, is the one fitted to the D25 range identical to the one fitted to the D24? If so, I would have thought that the number of cars that are still out there might have prompted someone to repro the parts?

The car does not have a glove box inside the lid. I gather they are only stiffened card. Does someone have a template I could use to make my own?

Lastly (for now) I notice on "my" Dodge that the chromed horn ring only goes a semicircle. Does that mean that the top has been broken off at some point?

Thanks again all of you for your interest.

[Don Coatney]

Richard;

Your car looks great and welcome to the forum.

The slits in the lower portion of your windscreen surround should be open from the underside. Your car appears to be a Plymouth with Dodge badgeing. If your car has been converted to 12 volts there are new LED tail lights available. Your horn ring has broken off. Replacements come up on eBay from time to time.

[Richard Coney]

Don,

Thank you very much. Your car looks great as well. I've 'bookmarked' your photo-page for studying later.

I've thought of another question. What is the small chromed elipse in the centre of the instument binnacle with the hole in the middle? The guy who owns "my" D25C does not not know. We think it might be the hi-beam indicator. It is indeed a Plymouth with Dodge chrome, made as an export model by the Canadians.

[Don Coatney]

It is indeed the high beam indicator.

[Andydodge]

Richard, gidday from the colonies.......the inside window surround on "your" car has the demister vents, I would think that all cars would have come with these from the factory irrespective whether they had a heater /demister as it would have been easier that way, heaters generally were dealer installed and the heater option wouldn't have included a new windscreen surround........I have a 1941 Plymouth P11 Coupe, factory RHD Auxillary Seat Coupe build in Sth Africa......I have repainted my inside surround when I installed the sunvisor and it had the demister vents like yours but no demister......underneath the vents on the body there is holes to accomodate the factory demister tubes etc.........and I also have a 1940 Oz Dodge Sedan into which i have installed a Smiths brand heater, the 60's style "round" type with doors that open on the front and the demister tubes on the rear......demisters were NOT available on Oz Dodges in 1940 and I used vents from some jap buzz box mounted onto the front of the dash top with holes cut into the dash and tubs mounted underneath......my car is a hot rod so I didn't have a problem doing this.......theres pics on the About Us page at www.scaleautomobilia.com.au .........btw I won't mention the cricket.......lol....Andy Douglas

[greg g]

In looking at the pic, a couple thing caught my eye, at the front is there currently welting between the wings and the cowl? Or is the gap in the fitment really large? If there is welting, it shouldn't be there. The front wings are isolated from the cowl by smaoo pieces if anti squeek rubber that when mounted are not visible. The get glued to the cowl betweent he mounting bolts.

You may not be aware that the Stainless rocker panel ( between the front and rear wings unter the doors is missing. These pieces can be expensive and difficult to find in good condition.

Also from the picture, the tail lights don't look quite right but it may just be the angle

of the pic.

[RobertKB]

Glove boxes are reproduced. Google them to see if you can find one or if not I am sure someone on the forum will have information. You could check the list of suppliers found on the forum as well.

Horn ring is broken. See attached picture. I painted my dash and window surrounds grey many years ago but they should be woodgrained. It looks like the ones on the car you are thinking of buying have been painted too.

Grille is different than the larger American Dodge D24. The one on the D24 is flatter whereas the one on the D25 comes to more of a point to fit the Plymouth front body work. See attached picture.

Tail lights should look like the ones in the third picture. Brake light surround is different than on a sedan. It will say "coupe" on the inside.

Your car likely has the long block 25" inch engine rather than the smaller 23" engine in American cars. Canada only produced the longer engine which fits all Canadian made cars. In the US only the Desoto and Chrysler had this engine. Parts are very easy to come by for the mechanicals on these cars.

Good luck with your efforts if you do get the car.

Edited August 8, 2009 by RobertKB

[BobT-47P15]

Looks to me like the rocker stainless trim is in the car.

Upholstry work looks good. Defroster slots are indeed already there.

Appears to be incorrect knob on the wiper switch on top of the dash.

No big deal.....those are often wrong. Turn signals have already been

added....that's good. Yes, that little oval, silver item with the hole is

the high beam indicator. Originlly it had some red cellophane like stuff

inside so it showed red when brights were on. That stuff is usully missing

by now. You can just be resourceful and use something translucent to

make a color indicator at some future date.

Horn rings are found on ebay pretty regularly.

Your car basically uses the same parts as the 46-48 Plymouth P15

model. With the exception of the Dodge-specific things like grille,

taillights and ornaments.

[Richard Coney]

Hey Guys! Thanks again. What can I say. Most impressive.

Bob, the chrome lengths are the missing under-sill (rocker?) trims, which the owner had bought that day, at the show. They will have to be refixed at some point. I'll ask him whether he could do it before I collect the car. He's far more capable than I am and has been a professional car restorer in the past. As I said before, he seems a really nice guy. He's visited the forum in the past. Perhaps he's reading this. I hope so.

I thought that the little chrome bit was for the high beam. If the red lens is missing, a good source of transparent plastic is an old toothbrush handle, which can be carved or machined to shape. The upholstery is good, with the exception of the rear side piece behind the driver, where the rear window crank has snagged and torn the vinyl. I'll keep a watch on e-Bay to see how much horn rings go for. I presume that I'll be seeking a D24C Dodge one, rather than a P15 Plymouth? If only the latter fits I presume that I would have to swap the centre badge. I'll also look into the wiper switch.

Robert, thanks for the helpful pictures. Your car looks great! I see the differences in the grille now. Easy when you know! I see you have the radio fitted. Are they easy to find? If they come up, do they ever work? I presume that they are valve radios. I presume they were a standard P15 fit? With regard to the engine, the owner reckons that at some point the car was fitted with a standard D24 engine. I'll have to check myself in due course. He's done quite a bit of mechanical work on the car and reckons that parts were pretty easy to find, though obviously most stuff has to be imported from the States. Do you have any alternative contacts for service parts in Canada? regarding the replacement glovebox I've seen repros for sale at about $70US. Is that about right?

Greg, wow, the coupe looks fantastic in black! Yes, it is welting sticking out between the wings (fenders) and the cowl. It looked odd to my eyes and it does stick out with no obvious way to contain the "tail" of the vinyl strip. I'll investigate the correct ant-squeak rubber in due course. It might have to await a respray before I strip it down and remove it. If it aint bust, don't fix it! Life's too short and there are too many other jobs to do. I think the lights are ok, though the chrome is worn. She is, after all, an old lady. I've uploaded some more pictures to show.

Andy. Gidday! Yes, perhaps better not to mention the cricket! I'm not a fan, but my partner and her brother are. They are very disappointed! Love your cars, especially the '41 coupe. I'm also a model car fan and I've written the model car review column for the British Classic American Magazine for the last 20 years or so. The old AMT '41 coupe was one of my favourites and I must see about getting another to build some time. We get so few plastic car kits these days. All the old model shops have gone. It's all diecast stuff now and that's slowly disappearing too. I'm actually a modeller rather than a collector, so it's most frustrating.

Don, thanks for your imput too.

Tomorrow's decision time. Wish me luck. I'll tell you how I got on.

[RobertKB]

Horn ring can be for a P15 as they are the same as the D25. The centre part with Dodge in it is separate from the horn ring so you already have it, you just need the ring. Radio is same as the P15. Your car likely has the longer engine as mentioned as it was made in Canada. A good source for parts in Canada is http://www.collectorsautosupply.com/ I'm sure there are other Canadians on the forum who can chime in with some other parts suppliers. There is a good one in Coquitlam, BC, and he specializes in old Mopar parts:

Rovon Auto Parts

640 - Porter Street

Coquitlam, British Columbia V3J 5A7

Canada

Phone - 604-936-9312

FAX - 604-936-4997

Hope this helps.

[Frank Elder]

Richard I have a horn ring from a 48 d24 you may have for the price of shipping. It's not in too bad of shape.

No reason to carve any thing for your indicator just use a little swatch of tail lite tape and glue it in. I hope you realize you dream.

[Richard Coney]

Frankie, What can I say? Thank you very much for your kind offer. If I get the car I will most certainly contact you to make arrangements. One thing less to worry about.

Robert. Marvellous! Those contacts will be most useful.

I'll get back to you all when I've seen the car tomorrow. It's 10:50pm on Saturday night here in London. Another hot and muggy day awaits us in what is normally a wet and windy August.

[Andydodge]

Richard, the easy thing for the high beam indicator is a piece of model car red tailight sprue but red toothbrush plastic carved works well also.........andyd

[claybill]

glove box repos are about $40. ebay..new ones.

bill

GET THAT CAR...AND ROLL ON!!

[Robin (UK)]

Hi Richard,

I'm just back from vacation, so have only now seen this thread.

I recognise the blue coupe from the Rally of The Giants, where you took the pictures.

I was there with my red 1947 P15 convertible and I travelled up with Deano and his green 47 sedan.

If you buy the car, please feel free to email me at Robin@RockTheJoint.com if I can be of any help with parts/info/resources.

The guys on here are THE BEST.

You'll certainly have lots of fun with a D25.

Good luck.

Robin.

[Young Ed]

I don't think Frankies d24 one is the same as the plymouth one. Better check it out before you spring for shipping. I might have a p15 one available. I also have a set of the ducts that attach under the dash if you are missing those.

[Frank Elder]

I thought the horn rims would interchange, dang!

My apologies Richard.

[Richard Coney]

Hi Guys! I went to see the D25C Coupe today and was most impressed. It's what might be described as an older restoration, or "well used, but not abused". It drives great, though obviously going from a 2008 Mazda 6 auto to a 1948 Dodge manual, one has to make allowances. There again I'm not a newby when it comes to old American cars, having owned several in the last 30 years from the Fifties to the Eighties. It just comes down to adjusting the driving style, especially the use of the brakes, and being able to make decisions that much earlier compared to driving a modern vehicle.

To cut a long story short, I have agreed to buy the car for the asking price, which given the overall condition and the car's rarity in the UK, I reckon is very reasonable. Possibly the only D25C Special Deluxe Coupe in the UK? Most importantly, it was just within my budget. It's not concours by any means and has the odd bubble in the paint and ripple in the bodywork. There again, the old girl is over 60 years old and will be, in any case, garaged when not in use, so there should be little or no further deterioration.

The current owner is a very genuine guy, and an occasional visitor to this very forum. Being a gentlemen and an accomplished fabricator he has generously agreed to fit the passenger side bear claw latch before I pick up the car and get it MOTed for 12 months. Our MOT (Ministry of Transport as was?) test is mandatory and all cars on the road have to have a current one. As the Dodge's ticket was due to expire in January he agreed to get a new one before I pick up the car. Much better than dragging her out mid-winter. Very kind! I'll collect the car in 3-4 weeks, if he gets time to finish the work. I'm in no hurry.

With regards to the demisters/defroster vent slots on the screen surround, on closer inspection they are fitted and opened up, so thanks for all of you who sent reassurances. I must be going blind in my old age! Apparently a BMC Mini heater had been fitted by a previous owner since arrival in the UK, but as it was somewhat ungainly, the current owner removed it. I'll have to source a neater one in due course.

Young Ed, the ducts underneath that would lead from the heater appear to be missing as far as I could tell from my quick grope under the dashboard, so your offer would be gratefully received if we could perhaps discuss it later? Unless, of course, one of the UK owners has something similar spare that they would consider letting me have, for appropriate renumeration? As it would appear from posts received since I last logged on that Frankie's kind offer of the horn ring won't fit, I would also be interested in your spare P/15 one, if you can spare it and the price is right. Thank you. Mine's definitely broken. Perhaps you could send me a private message and we could discuss off forum?

Frankie. Thanks again for your offer, which until I picked up the Thread I was going to take you up on. You never know, perhaps you have something else I might need in due course.

Robin, thanks for the message. I admired your car at RoG 2009. What a beauty! I will e-mail you direct duing the week for a chat. Thanks for the offer. Am I right in thinking you have outfitted the engine with some vintage hop-up equipment? Someone mentioned Fenton parts. An idea: Unless there is already one, in which case I would like details, perhaps there might be enough fat fendered Plymouths and Dodges in the UK to get a club together? Food for thought?

Finally, before I go tonight, I discovered that my (nearly) Dodge has its Plymouth style speedometer in kilometers, not miles per hour. Does anyone have a spare speedo face in mph that I could substitute for the km one fitted? I believe that unless the dial comes with both measurements, strictly speaking in the UK I am required to have an mph one. Perhaps the MOT testers have never looked before. I'd rather fit a mph one than risk it.

Thanks again for all your support.

[RobertKB]

I might have one, I will check and get back to you.

[BobT-47P15]

That Dodge tail light is the same as the Plymouth P15.