falconvan Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I'd check with Fatman's Fabrications. These early Mopar front ends actually have pretty good geometry and Fatman's make a few nice kits to adapt a 89-96 Cavalier rack and pinion, disc brakes, and dropped uprights to them. I've seen a few done this way and both owners were very satisfied with the results. I'm doing this with mine; the rack conversion along with disc brakes and dropped uprights. They also offer a complete front framestub to use MII stuff if you want to go that route. I looked at a Camaro subframed 48 P15 last year and decided not to do mine that way because it just looked like a hack job. If you're going through the labor and $$ to upgrade, look at the companies who've put good research and development into their product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 going to take some cash just to get the Fatman sub frame rails..yes even they subframe these cars before hanging the Mustang II IFS..at the tune of 600.00, add the MS II front end at what ever stage you chose..you into them for about 2900.00 not counting shipping and handling then if you lucky enough to be where they have to charge the tax..plus you still have the cost of material to do the job/labor if you farm it out..this is the basic reaon more and more of these cars gt a donor subrame due to the high cost..even if you buy the IFS mount kit for the MS II setup (you have a donor car maybe) still runs about 400.00 for that kit..and if you want to use the entire MS II front frame rails etc etc from the donor car..these will be short stubs by the time you get the joint properly positioned for the wheel opening..then you still have to figure the front doghouse..so get out the sawsall and get to whacking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkestes41 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Picked this up last week, engine locked up. Going with a slant 6 and push button auto. What gear should I run in the rear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Elder Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Something in the 2.90 range would be sweet:eek::eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Picked this up last week, engine locked up. Going with a slant 6 and push button auto. What gear should I run in the rear? what a waste of a good mopar engine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old woolie Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 what a waste of a good mopar engine... Beat me to it. That made me laugh though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 what a waste of a good mopar engine... Yer killin me Tim, i was thinking the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Anyone have any tips or methods of doing this? i just bought the subframe and I am cleaning it up before i measure it and cut it to weld it. if anyone has done this before I will take any tips u can offer and even pics if you got it. Any help would be great My best suggestion is "Don't do it". There is nothing wrong with the way the cars handle and ride with the stock suspension,and there has been more than one old car sent to the crusher after it was ruined by a botched frame clip job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have spoken to a few people who have done this and they say the frame will slide right into the old frame. My father and I spent like 2 hrs and measured every possible thing we can. From wheel to whell and inside and outside frame size all the way to width of old frame tires to the new one. the numbers suggest it will work Yeah,it will work. My P-15 has a 78 Camaro frame clip. http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4967/rfrontto5.jpg There is a lot of cutting and welding bracing plates,not to mention the work of trimming and hanging the front sheet metal and bumper,and what do you have when you are through and have done all that work? Nothing that you couldn't have had by just making motor mounts and rebuilding your stock front end and adding power brakes if you want them. Your frame surely isn't any stronger than original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falconvan Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I figured what I had in mine last night: using the stock suspension and upgrading I paid $225 for the rack and pinion mount kit, $90 for a new rack and pinion, $300 for dropped uprights which came with a shock relocation kit, $500 for disc brake conversion stuff, $100 for an Ebay tilt column, and probably another $200 for misc like steering joints, new shocks, some boneyard items, etc. So about $1400 and I think I probably could've done the brake conversion cheaper than what I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchingWolf Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Built your car the way you want it. Don't let these guys get to you.... Just remember, "Opinions are like small block Chevy motors, everyone has at least one and they usually aren't worth the two cents you have to give for it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 small block Chevy motors, everyone has at least one and they usually aren't worth the two cents you have to give for it." Man that is the truth!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I understand the cookie cutter aspect of the SBC, not that it would stop me from using one, but beyond that, what's wrong with a SBC??? Seems to me one of the best, most reliable, simplest engines ever built, and they are easy and inexpensive to buy. What's the rub?? (BESIDES the fact it's common) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 And' date=' since the SBC is so common, parts are always available cheaper and anywhere you look. That makes it that much more appealing too.[/quote']No more so than a mopar or ford! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolliejoe Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 multiple choice: A. the author of this thread is a troll looking to start a Mopar vs. chevy debate on a Mopar forum. B. an ill informed person who doesn't realize how much inferior the chevy products are to Mopar. C all of the above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 multiple choice:A. the author of this thread is a troll looking to start a Mopar vs. chevy debate on a Mopar forum. B. an ill informed person who doesn't realize how much inferior the chevy products are to Mopar. C all of the above. Oh man now Norm is gonna be mad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 found this, yep real reliable! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=362583 man i love this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 multiple choice:A. the author of this thread is a troll looking to start a Mopar vs. chevy debate on a Mopar forum. B. an ill informed person who doesn't realize how much inferior the chevy products are to Mopar. C all of the above. Asking for help when he's obviously already got his mind made up does seem a little odd. Lots of wise (and less expensive) advice given that is vehemently being ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatS.... Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 No more so than a mopar or ford! And I wouldn't hesitate to use a Mopar OR a Ford small block if I got a good deal. Although, in 1974, I had a 72 Plymouth Satellite with a 318 and without any warning it threw a rod right through the block!!! Does that make all MSB's junk? I've had great engines from all 3 makes and I have had DOGS from all 3 makes. The worst were ALL 400's, no matter the make, ALL junk when new, didn't last a year in a taxi, mine or anyone elses...junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billwillard Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Does anyone remember Tonys question? He said he was installing a sub frame and would like HELP OR GUIDANCE from anyone. What has he gotten but a bunch of whys-do nots- why not mopars ect. He doesn't care what others like he wants to do it his way and why not it is his car. Can anyone give any advice or are we just going to chastise him? My dime worth:D Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 The worst were ALL 400's, no matter the make, ALL junk when new, didn't last a year in a taxi, mine or anyone elses...junk. That's strange. I have a '78 GMC Triple E Motorhome with the small block 400 CID in it. I love that engine. Lots of torque and will cruise at 100 all day. Mileage sucks though. That's 100 kilometres/hour for our American members, about 62 MPH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Does anyone remember Tonys question? He said he was installing a sub frame and would like HELP OR GUIDANCE from anyone. What has he gotten but a bunch of whys-do nots- why not mopars ect. He doesn't care what others like he wants to do it his way and why not it is his car. Can anyone give any advice or are we just going to chastise him? My dime worth:DBill Technically I don't have a dog in this fight but I will have to comment that I only cautioned him to pay attention to wheel opening and ride height when stubbing it up...I could really care less how he does it..if it is completed or not...how it looks, how it rides..his choice of drive train etc..I did point out a few things I have personally seen with these models concerning sub frames and for that matter setting this body on complete donor frame....my only personal concern is if he puts it on the road that the vehicle's safety is not compromised and that it is not a threat to other motorists... on other posted opinion, thoughts, suggestions I did express an counter opinion or personal preference and in matters such as the Fatman the added costs not normally considered, not a naysay to him to stop all work or go this route only...I am however quilty of the cookie cutter comment..and to qualify that statement to some degree you can only look at so many IDIDIT, Genie, Ron Drake, Dakota Digital, billet accessories and them awful looking designer front seats..etc etc before you are ready to gag..not knocking anyone who has that..but it gets boring after a bit..last cruise there was five 32 coupes..3 were identical right down to the billet accessories, 2 were almost the same and 3 of the five were the same color....its get to where you seen one you have seen them all ..again, this is jut an opinion of mine..not trying to force anyone to accept my ideas or totally agree with my thoughts..I would venture to guess that 90% do not like what I have done to my cars.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Neon Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I just don't like being in shows because it usu. shoots an entire day, and there are too many guys there that take the whole trophy thing WAY TOO seriously. I like cruise-ins because generally I can come and go as I please. I REALLY like to do cruises. I've planned two that never came to pass. Both were shot-down by the local club that I was in. I did all the work on the second one independently, but had to cancel due to it falling in the middle of three to four days' torrential down pour. Then I moved to Missouri soon after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billwillard Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 cruise ins are a lot more fun then the big shows for me but I try to do some of both. The big shows are for someone else to make bucks off your time and labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyciccotelli Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 OK OK OK. I have been convinced not to cut the frame. I do ask for some opinions and methods or even website on where to update my front end. i would like to get front disc conversion kit. Would like as much of a bolt on kit as it comes. Then I would need a master cylander kit and new brake petal for the plymouth. I would like to convert it to power steering too. any info on that would be great. last but not least any info on redoing the suspension to modern would ne great. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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