Throw out bearing???? WRONG ONE! HELP!

[Powerhouse]

Howdy,

I just took out the clutch...after a couple hours of work removing driveshaft, floor and OD Tranny. I found that the throwout bearing supplied to me in the kit I bought is incorrect. It actually fits over the pressure plate fine...but has no way of attaching to my original throwout bearing sleeve! The original will not work as it is too small in diameter.

Can anyone tell me what bearing I need for a 10 inch Borg and Beck Clutch? it's bolted to a 53 dodge engine...in a 39 plymouth. Replacing a 9 1/4. Mine doesn't have a sleeve and I am in dire need of the correct one ASAP..or I'll be catching a ride to work...which will not be to my wife's liking...or mine.

The original is marked: A 935 1

The new sleeveless one is: A 206 5T

The old pressure plate is: model 918 type 9 A 6

The new Pressure plate is: 1323 or 1318(scratched out by factory) type 10 A 7

Edited May 9, 2009 by Powerhouse

[TodFitch]

Not sure if this helps, but the 1936-48 parts book shows all Plymouth passenger cars using part 658998 for the clutch release bearing assembly. NAPA Online crosses that to BRG N1054.

The Plymouth trucks in the 1930s used part 581499 which NAPA Online crosses to BRG N1087.

Neither of those numbers match up to what you have found. But you are also dealing with a 1953 engine which is newer than my parts book goes.

[Powerhouse]

thanks Tod...I'm on a wild goose chase...

What 10" throwout bearings is anyone out there using on a 3 speed? I was told it would be a simple conversion from 9.25 to 10 inch...that bearing is just not easy to find info on....well, I better get to bed.

[moose]

I don't really have any info here, but When I put a 10" on my 55 3 speed, I had to make a sleeve to use the throw-out bearing that came with the pressure plate. I don't have any part numbers because I found this pressure plate combo on an industrial 230 on an airport tug, in a junk pile where I used to work. I'm glad I had access to a machine shop at the time.

[Young Ed]

On my truck I had to press the actual bearing onto the housing piece that attaches to the clutch fork.

[Jim Yergin]

When I installed the 10" clutch on my car I used the same throwout bearing I had used on the 9 1/4" clutch. I didn't have any problems. My '41 parts book shows the same throwout bearing was used with both the 9 1/4", 10" and 11" clutches.

Jim Yergin

[Powerhouse]

the throwout bearing for the old 9 1/4 has smaller inner diameter of 1 5/16 while the 10 inch is 2 1/16. If I were to put the sleeve from the old bearing in the new 10 inch bearing it would fall right through. ALSO..the new bearing is a bit taller at 1 1/16 tall, with the old being 7/8 tall. The outer diameter of the old bearing is about 3 1/16 while the new one is 3.75. The old bearing just about touches the fingers on the 10 inch pressure plate. Any pictures of how much they need to touch?

[DutchEdwin]

The 1955 plymouth P26 and P27 with 3 speed manual gearbox have 10 inch / 11 inch Borg and Beck Clutch.

In these the folowing clutch release bearing fits:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/compatibility-chart/B000CKM588/ref=au_pf_dp_chart

If you only need the bearing:

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1349579,parttype,1968

The bearing sizes are BCA/NATIONAL Part # 1505 {Ball Bearing Bore=1.4995" Outer Diameter=2.7344" Width=0.625"}

Hope this helps.

I'm going to fit mine tomorrow......I hope.

[Jim Yergin]

The inside diameter of the throwout bearing is designed to fit around the transmission input shaft sleeve, isn't it? The same sleeve is used no matter what size clutch. It sound to me like you have the wrong "10"" bearing. Also, the fingers of the pressure plate need to fit around the same input shaft so why would that dimension vary? As I said in my previous post, at least in '41 the same bearing was used regardless of the clutch size. Looking at the '36 -'48 parts book on Chet's site, that is true for all those years, the same throwout bearing was used for the 9 1/4", 10" and 11" clutches. In my own case, I have a p23 block with a 10" clutch using a '41 transmission and '41 throwout bearing without a problem. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Jim Yergin

[Powerhouse]

I think I MAY HAVE THE WRONG DANG PRESSURE PLATE TO...

here is the old bearing with the new 10" pressure plate. It just about touches the fingers. Will that be what works?

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/?action=view&current=IMG_2925.jpg&newest=1

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/?action=view&current=IMG_2919.jpg&newest=1

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/IMG_2919.jpg

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/?action=view&current=IMG_2920.jpg&newest=1

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/?action=view&current=IMG_2922.jpg&newest=1

http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a9/m_maringola/?action=view&current=IMG_2924.jpg&newest=1

Edited May 10, 2009 by Powerhouse

[Plymouthy Adams]

not sure about the bearing issues but the pressure plate in your pictures identifies it as Borg and Beck 10 inch unit and should be assembly number 928 the identifier here is the 9 springs in groups of three green in color..

in looking at your old original bearing from the 9 1/4..look on the bearing face to determine the contact point as shown by wear when it engages the three releasing fingers of the clutch cover..keep in mind also the fact that as the fingers are depressed during engaging of the clutch they actually travel a tad across the face of the bearing making a larger footprint on the bearing surface..

[Powerhouse]

Thanks so much for the great information again..

The footprint left by the old fingers are centered on the bearing face...about 1/4 inch wide and 1/4 inch in from OD and also ID. I guess the bearing might work since it just touches the fingers...it will move inwards 1/4 inch on the bearing. it is very close to the edge though. I will have to wait till monday and call the supplier to ask about what size bearings he has available...OD and ID. If they have a bearing with just about 1/4 more OD...I'll guess that will be the correct one.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Powerhouse

[dezeldoc]

I think he is trying to use modern parts to make a kit and not having much luck! bolt the pressure plate down as it will pull the fingers in then check it. how is the pressure plate height compaired to the old one? is it taller?

[PatrickG]

i have run into this problem as well. Bought a clutch, press. plate, and t/o bearing from vintage power wagons, and when i installed it (many moons after i actual bought the parts) is when i realized i had different parts than what i had from the factory. the ID and OD of the throwout bearing from VPW are both bigger, and it doesnt fit on the stock sleeve, so it looks like we're both looking for the same solution.

[DutchEdwin]

bolt the pressure plate down as it will pull the fingers in then check it.

P-House,

I saw in your pictures that the fingers are just touching the bearing, but you didn't bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel with the friction disk in between. When doing this you will see that the fingers will travel down because the springs are compressed. When the fingers travel down they will also travel to the inner, creating a smaller circle where they touch.

I did assemble my clutch on the table today, saw the same effect. When not assembled, fingers just touching, when assembled the bearing was touching at the right spot.

good luck, Edwin.

[Powerhouse]

AH! That's the ticket...It should fit then. I didn't think of that...There's about 1/2 inch of compressing when bolted down all the way...

[Powerhouse]

I have the correct TOB coming in the mail from the supplier. I put the clutch disc and pressure plate assembly back in...and all the other linkage stuff. HOWEVER...the "free play adjustable rod" thing...is worn a bout 1/8 of an inch where the rod attaches to the pedal link...there is a hole for a cotter pin on that end too...but at some point since 1939 the pin broke and the linkage shifted a bit. Which caused the worn spot...I wonder if thats why the adjustment for free play can't be made properly.

THE PEDAL STILL NEEDS TO GO TO THE FLOOR TO DISENGAGE THE CLUTCH!

AFTER ALL THAT WORK AND MONEY! AND STILL MORE TO GO!

[Don Coatney]

My rod ends and pins were all severly worn. I brazed the holes closed and re-

drilled them. Also made new pins.

[Powerhouse]

I think I may have to make a new one...on the 39 it's a bit different rod. The end where the hole for a pin is on the later one, like yours, is a 90 degree bend...that end goes in to the hole and is fixed in by a cotter pin. I see why they changed the design...so you can just replace the pin instead of the entire rod ...

[Powerhouse]

OK...The clutch torque shaft was very worn...as well as the rods.

I went on Bernbaum's website...had them for $40...but when I called they don't have them anymore...big surprise.

Collectors auto $130...Ebay..NOS $50...Bought it and am waiting impatiently.

As for the rods...I am making some in the shop...or filling in what i can with welding.

Eventually I will have someone help me with brazing the old clutch torque shaft so I have a spare.

[Powerhouse]

Got the clutch in...and tranny as well...I had trouble getting the cluch disc to line up with the tranny shaft...so I loosened the clutch assembly from the flywheel...just enough so the disc would move a bit to allow the tranny shaft to enter...it worked like a charm! I didn't need the clutch instalation spline tool afterall since I had to loosen the assembly to get the tranny in.

Still waiting on the torque shaft...

[moose]

Good progress.

Did you receive a package from me yet?

[Powerhouse]

Hey there...yes I GOT IT yesterday!

[Powerhouse]

OK...clutch and new torque tube is back in...along with some new linkage rods I made up at work. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! YEEHAAA!