jimainnj Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I just replace the right front flex brake line, ( I had good braking before ) but the rubber was cracking. I read the service manual bleed the lower bleeder 1st ok I had someone push in the brake pedal there was no resistance it went to the floor,fluid came out, I switched to the upper bleed pumped the pedal still went to the floor and nothing came out the bleeder, ( I assume I only need to bleed the line I replaced) what is causing the lack of pedal pressure. Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Saraceno Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 When you have the bleeder valve open, there will be no resistance to the pedal. You need to keep pushing the pedal until fluid comes out of the valve while making sure you don't run low on fluid in the MC. Process: 1. fill MC 2. open bleeder valve 3. have someone press the brake pedal 2/3 down to floor. 4. close valve 5. repeat steps 2-3 until fluid runs out with no air bubbles. You may get lucky and only have to bleed one brake but if air gets into the line you may need to bleed all 4 starting at the RR (furthest from the MC) and ending at the LF (closest to the MC). If your pedal still feels spongy, then you still have air in the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1955 plymouth Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Try to back flush the system. I have good luck going backwards bleeding brakes, remove your resivoir cap, remove the caliper and compress the caliper piston either by hand or with a c-clamp, this will force the fluid in the caliper up thru the line and back to the resivoir, it will do a great job of getting the air out as well. air floats so it wants to go back to to top. Hope this trick helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Dear Jimainnj, Jim is right. Go around twice. Start at the wheel furthest from the Master Cylinder. Keep that Master Cylinder Full. Pump down full and back up slow. My wife does the pumping. Some place sell a little check valve, install it on your Bleeder Hose. Pump and Bleed those Babies until they flow clear "from the brim to the dregs" as old Blue eyes would sing in it was a very good year. I use a Quart Mason Jar. Fill it Half way with Brake Fluid drop your Bleeder Tube in it and begin. Go slow, its fun the second go through because your pedal gets real firm. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Even if you didn't get air in the rest of the system it'll help your brake system longevity to purge the old fluid and refresh it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I just replace the right front flex brake line, ( I had good braking before ) but the rubber was cracking. I read the service manual bleed the lower bleeder 1st ok I had someone push in the brake pedal there was no resistance it went to the floor,fluid came out, I switched to the upper bleed pumped the pedal still went to the floor and nothing came out the bleeder, ( I assume I only need to bleed the line I replaced) what is causing the lack of pedal pressure. Thanks Jim need advise, P15 (47) stock brake system, pumping pedal did not work, manual bleeder din't work. I cleaned out all bleeder valve's used teflon tape to seal thread's, bought Pneumatic fluid bleeder with auto filler, Harbor freight. Followed service manual r-rear L-rear r-front L-front bleed front lower bleed 1 st. I have been bleeding for hours and getting some fluid out but no where near a steady stream and no pedal. any suggestions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Did you adjust the brakes to insure that they are close to the drum. Also do you have the Lockheed brakes with the eccentrics? Did youmove the eccentrics? When you do a brake job and replace the shoes on the older mopar cars that had the lockheed brakes with the eccentrics and the eccentrics are moved to adjust the heel you either need the miller brake tool or the aftermarket Ammco brake gage. Let me know what you did? First readnjust the brake shoes as a minor brake adjustment. with the upper cam spin the wheel and then lock the shoe to the drum then backoff the shoe so the drum has a slight drag. The do the same to theother shoe. Now the show will be close to tge drum. Bleed the line again. You should now be getting a harder pedal. Brake adjust ment is very critical with the old Lockheed brakes. Rich HArtung desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I have a pump style bleeder with the tank. Never had much luck with it though. Seemed to put more air in the system than it let out. Went back to the manual method and all went smooth again. That said, I would bleed all six cylinders. Usually you won't get much pedal and hold it until you get to the last wheel. If your master cylinder had gone dry at some point, you may need to bleed it also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Norm The Master cly never went low, but I don't see in the service manual about bleeding the Master Cly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Jim, If your MC never went dry you shouldn't have to worry about that. There is something in there somewhere about doing that though if it did go dry, or when replacing it. You might want to check the plunger in the MC too. To do that, fill up the MC and leave the lid off. Then push the brake pedal down by hand and let up on it. After you let up on it, you should see either a bubble coming up from the bottom of the fluid, or it may actually squirt up about an inch or so, depending on how fast you let up on the pedal. If no bubble, you have a problem with that valve being stuck, or the plunger itself. Do that a couple of times at least, if no bubble the first try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Nom I recall on Sat. my nieghbor was pumping the pedel and said fluid came out the fill hole, I just tried it and there is no action at all, no bubbles. the ports are open. I read the manual on the Master Cyl it talks about every thing except bleeding it and freeing a stuck piston. Any suggestion would be appriciated. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 You waisted your time on the teflon tape on the bleeders, they seal by means of a tapered fit and may not be seating all the way or may have a piece under the seat not letting it seat fully. lightly tap on the master sometimes that will free up the puck if it is stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Take a small nail or something else pointed and try to clear out the hole. You could have a small piece of rust or dirt in there plugging the port. If the piston is actually stuck, it's probably time to rebuild the MC. Outside of that don't know of any other quick easy fix. I don't think it's a problem of needing to bleed your MC since you didn't let it go empty. A piece of dirt could have gotten into the MC when the lid was off. If you pumped it, you should have had some movement of the fluid in there. Maybe you pumped it too slow too. Try it a little faster. If still no action check the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 ok I rechecked the port holes there clear, I was going to use a BFH on the Master but used a small cresant wrench and wrapped it , then pumped pedal hard and out spashed fluid, I'll try bleeding again tomorrow. while I was mad at the brakes I unwrapped the chromed bumpers and started to install,well I took them off and don't rememper them not fitting, the holes don't line up, sooooo whats else is new. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 The ability to stop is more important than the ability to go. If you do not know how to correctly bleed and fix brakes read up and learn how to do it. Or better yet pay a professional to do so. This is not the place to exersize a learning curve. I do not want to be the car in front of you when your brakes fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 The ability to stop is more important than the ability to go. If you do not know how to correctly bleed and fix brakes read up and learn how to do it. Or better yet pay a professional to do so. This is not the place to exersize a learning curve. I do not want to be the car in front of you when your brakes fail. Mr.Coatney No where in my post did I say I did not know how to bleed brakes, I was tring to fine out if there was another problem in the system that was not in the service manual, If the forum isn't for asking questions What is it for, I hope others who may have question will still asked it after your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coatney Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 I just replace the right front flex brake line, ( I had good braking before ) but the rubber was cracking. I read the service manual bleed the lower bleeder 1st ok I had someone push in the brake pedal there was no resistance it went to the floor,fluid came out, I switched to the upper bleed pumped the pedal still went to the floor and nothing came out the bleeder, ( I assume I only need to bleed the line I replaced) what is causing the lack of pedal pressure. Thanks Jim Sorry if you are offended but this question sure sounds like you do not know the correct procedure to bleed brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 ok I rechecked the port holes there clear, I was going to use a BFH on the Master but used a small cresant wrench and wrapped it , then pumped pedal hard and out spashed fluid, I'll try bleeding again tomorrow. while I was mad at the brakes I unwrapped the chromed bumpers and started to install,well I took them off and don't rememper them not fitting, the holes don't line up, sooooo whats else is new. Jim Jim, I had the same problem with my bumper when I replaced it. The problem is the bumper bracket off the frame. Those are spring steel so you have to finesse them a little to make the holes line up with the brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimainnj Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'll be pulling them into alignment tomorrow there about 3/4" off. Thanks Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 you should not have fluid spilling from the MC when you depress the pedal. The piston should be movig fluid toward the wheel cylinders not out of the reservoir. Sound like you may have some blockage in the neighbor hood of the MC exit. See if the brake lights are coming on when you pump the pedal. Since the original brake light switch is hydraulic, and is close to the MC it should be reacting to the pedal being pumped. If not something is blocking the exit of fluid from the MC. If the light is coming on, try the pressure bleeder again. When it is pumped up it should also be lighting the brake lamp. Are you presurzing the lines before you open a bleeder? Also check to see if the relief hole in the bottom of the reservoir is open and clear. there should be two holes visible and open in the bottom of the MC reservoir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Greg, Pushing down on the pedal causes the fluid to go to the wheels as you mentioned. But........when you let up on the pedal, it causes bubbles and if let up fast enough it will cause the fluid to shoot up about an inch or so like a geyser, if all is working well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioguy7 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Go to your local auto parts store and spend the money on a pressure brake bleeder tank. You fill the tank up with brake fluid then close it up and put a 10-15 pound charge of air in the tank. It then connects to your master cylinder and one man can bleed the brakes on a car by himself in about 15 minutes. Well worth the expense and you would have been done in the time it took you to boot your pc, log onto this site and type your first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Go to your local auto parts store and spend the money on a pressure brake bleeder tank. You fill the tank up with brake fluid then close it up and put a 10-15 pound charge of air in the tank. It then connects to your master cylinder and one man can bleed the brakes on a car by himself in about 15 minutes. Well worth the expense and you would have been done in the time it took you to boot your pc, log onto this site and type your first post. I have one of those bleeders, and it's not worth squat in my opinion. Puts more air into the system than it takes out. You don't need two people to bleed the brakes manually. One can do it easily and just as quick with a piece of hose and a jar, and you don't get any air in the system that way. Simply hook up your bleeder line to the wheel cylinder, place the line in a jar about half full of fluid (weigh down the line with a bolt tied to it to keep it below the fluid in the jar). Sit on the door sill of the car and press the brake pedal down about 5 times, then move on to the next wheel and repeat until you have them all done. Should refill the MC each time you start a new wheel cylinder. I know of at least one other forum member who will say the same thing. That's because I bought my bleeder from him. He tried it and said the same thing I did. But.........I wanted to try it myself, so I bought it anyway. He went back to doing it manually too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezeldoc Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I have one of those bleeders' date=' and it's not worth squat in my opinion. Puts more air into the system than it takes out. You don't need two people to bleed the brakes manually. One can do it easily and just as quick with a piece of hose and a jar, and you don't get any air in the system that way. Simply hook up your bleeder line to the wheel cylinder, place the line in a jar about half full of fluid (weigh down the line with a bolt tied to it to keep it below the fluid in the jar). Sit on the door sill of the car and press the brake pedal down about 5 times, then move on to the next wheel and repeat until you have them all done. Should refill the MC each time you start a new wheel cylinder. I know of at least one other forum member who will say the same thing. That's because I bought my bleeder from him. He tried it and said the same thing I did. But.........I wanted to try it myself, so I bought it anyway. He went back to doing it manually too.[/quote'] If it is putting air in the system their is a problem with the unit or the way you have it hooked up. the fluid is in a bladder and the air charge is pushing up on the bladder so no air can get at the fluid, you also have to bleed off the air when you fill the tank, after it is bleed off it should work great, i have had mine for over 25yrs and no problems with it other than replacing the bladder once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 dezeldoc, The other forum member I bought the tank from bought it new. He liked it so well he only charged me half the price he paid, and paid the shipping if I remember correctly. That said, I still think it's easier and cleaner to do it the old fashioned way. For one, don't have to clean out the bleeder tank when you're done. The old fashioned way, you just toss the bleeder line and jar in the garbage. Also nothing to take up storage space in the garage that way. Those plastic hoses are dirt cheap. Guess I'm just an old fart that is stuck in the 50's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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