Drivers Or Showcars

[55 Fargo]

Hi all, was thinknig about this, most of us have driver quality cars, which is fine by me, mine isn't even up to driver snuff yet:o , but she is on the road and licensed.

I would and could not ever afford to make mine into a show quality vehicle, say a #2 or #1 concourse type class, never happen in a million years.

I do however want to try and get her to a # 3 calibre.

Now on my car, to bring her to a # 3 status;) , I plan to complete the following, new Paint Job, after a lot of panel work, re-chrome bumpers, and some pot metal items, polish the stainless trim, new interior/upholstery.

The undercar is all clean and painted, so is the engine and engine bay, trunk is cleaned up and painted too.

My engine number:eek: does not match the car,it is froma 1951 Plymouth, I do not have a fluid drive or M5 trans, I have a dry clutch and 3 spd, so I have a modded ppower train already:D .

The final thing I would like to do, is a disc brake conversion, and new shoes, with white spats.

My 47 is probably a #5 statuts right now, even though I have done a lot of work to her already, but without a paint job and interior job, she can't even get into a # 4 class, no big deal, I enjoy drivin her already.

Any comments appreciated, or if you want to rank your ride go for it..........Fred

Here is a before pic, actually she was worse:o , but a lot of unseen work had been done, and the other pic is her in progress, no after pic yet

[james curl]

Even if you do the glass out paint job and blow the car apart for paint, reassemble with new rubber, weather-stripping and glass yourself you will still be out at least one thousand dollars, if you have it done expect $6000.00. If you have the car re-upholstered by a shop, in my part of the country a plain cloth with vinyl trim in the stock configuration will cost between $2500.00 and $3000.00. If you do it yourself, unless you are good with a paint gun and a sewing machine the results probably will not be to #3 standards. Most of the good cars at a car show are #3 cars and to me #3 is a pretty high standard as compared to #1 & #2 status cars which are not driven but trailered and control temperature garage kept.

[Mr. Belvedere]

Gee Fred, I don't remember the exact definitions for car ratings but yours looks, and if its mechanically sound now, closer to a #4 already. Other than chrome, do you plan on painting it and doing the upohlstery yourself?

[blueskies]

I don't have an interior yet, but I'd say my car is in the #3 territory. And I think the paint ages much better with a sigificant amount of bug juice... Trailered cars are the most un-reliable too, I wouldn't want one.

Pete

[De Soto Frank]

Fred,

My recollection of the Old Cars Weekly " 1 thru 5 " condition scale is that #5 would not be tagged and driveable...

I believe they have added a #6 condition, which basically means "parts car".

Looks like your '47 has come a long way....

My ideal goal for a an antique is "presentable driver": looks nice, funtions correctly and reliably, but isn't so pristine that I'm scared to take it out of the garage.

And yes, trailer/garage queens can be hideously unreliable / undriveable, no matter how good they look.

It is true that driving a vehicle is going to leave its marks on the car: bugs, stone chips, and other road-rash.

So, if its a 1st-class trophy you want, then go ahead and spend lots of money & elbow grease, over-restore the vehicle, trailer it and get your trophy(ies), then DRIVE then darned thing and ENJOY it !

Just my thoughts on it... if a driver is your goal, make it safe and reliable, make it nice enough so that you (and your family) aren't ashamed to be seen in it, hit the road and have fun !

Regards,

De Soto Frank

[55 Fargo]

I don't have an interior yet, but I'd say my car is in the #3 territory. And I think the paint ages much better with a sigificant amount of bug juice... Trailered cars are the most un-reliable too, I wouldn't want one.

Pete

Pete thought the Trailer Queens had all the "BUGS WORKED OUT".............LOL

I wouldn't want one either, if I can get the body and paint up to your standards I will be a happy man, would also like to do some trick engine work on a 251, I have sitting here at home........Fred

[55 Fargo]

Fred,

My recollection of the Old Cars Weekly " 1 thru 5 " condition scale is that #5 would not be tagged and driveable...

I believe they have added a #6 condition, which basically means "parts car".

Looks like your '47 has come a long way....

My ideal goal for a an antique is "presentable driver": looks nice, funtions correctly and reliably, but isn't so pristine that I'm scared to take it out of the garage.

And yes, trailer/garage queens can be hideously unreliable / undriveable, no matter how good they look.

It is true that driving a vehicle is going to leave its marks on the car: bugs, stone chips, and other road-rash.

So, if its a 1st-class trophy you want, then go ahead and spend lots of money & elbow grease, over-restore the vehicle, trailer it and get your trophy(ies), then DRIVE then darned thing and ENJOY it !

Just my thoughts on it... if a driver is your goal, make it safe and reliable, make it nice enough so that you (and your family) aren't ashamed to be seen in it, hit the road and have fun !

Regards,

De Soto Frank

Frank, you are correct, this cowboy don't want a " Show Day Pony" either, just hope to get the body, paint and interior to a decent quality, she is and always be a driver, is far too rough a specimen for anything else.

She was jsut one trip away from the scrap yard, and in her condition, maybe she should have gone there, even bringing her this far has been a lot of time and money, a car in better shape would have been the ticket........Fred

[blueskies]

...if I can get the body and paint up to your standards I will be a happy man.........Fred

Fred-

My paint job cost $2900, and I completely dissassembled and re-assembled the car myself. There were a few fender bender dents, but nothing serious.

It looks a bit better in the photos than in person, because the camera doesn't pick up the two dozen paint chips from the my dog, my kids, my wrenches, my jeans, rocks, bugs, etc, etc... but then I'm proud of every one. If, when I'm done driving this car, there is nothing but bugs and rocks left on the front end, I'll be just as happy.

Pete

[Dennis Hemingway]

My car is not a trailer queen my wife is. The wife wants air conditioning when the outside temp is between 100 - 120. So I put the car on the trailer if the show is over 50 miles away, this is to ensure domistic tranquility.

Dennis:D

[steveplym]

My car is not a trailer queen my wife is. The wife wants air conditioning when the outside temp is between 100 - 120. So I put the car on the trailer if the show is over 50 miles away, this is to ensure domistic tranquility.

Dennis:D

Also called "Happy wife, Happy life!" My Dad told me when I got married remember this, "Do you want to be right, or happy?"

[Dennis Hemingway]

Also called "Happy wife, Happy life!" My Dad told me when I got married remember this, "Do you want to be right, or happy?"

It has worked for almost 41 years now.

Dennis:D

[woodie49]

My woodie is pretty much 3/4 on appearence, if you don't lift the hood or loop underneath. New paint, excellent original wood, excellent brightwork, re-upholstered, original near-perfect headliner, etc. I have wrestled with "how far to take it" because I really like the degree of original condition it exhibits. Also, I have a Packard 120 that was restored about 7 years ago and kept in a private museum until we bought it. It was exercised minimally, but shown fairly extensively. Being a 120, it was not extremely expensive, but definately not cheap to us. I spent a bit of money changing hoses, fluids, replacing all wheel / axle bearings, etc. to make it street worthy and fairly reliable. We do show it, but we don't (dare) drive it a lot.

We want the Woodie to be a driver we can enjoy, so I have decided to take the machanicals in stages. Clean everything up and evaluate as we go. Once I get the engine reliable and looking good, we intend to drive and enjoy. I am running a P23 but it should be a P18, so I want to find one, rebuild it (never rebuilt anything smaller than a 327 bowtie), along with a tranny and O/D that is period correct and drop it in. But I may never get that far. My philosopy is, if you really want to own a show car, buy it restored and you will probably save a few dollars, since it often costs more to do a good restoration than the end product is worth. Show it, don't drive it and hope it goes up in value. If you want a driver, do it to taste, but don't overdo it.

It is a lot more fun to drive a 3 than to sit in a 2 in your garage making engine noises.

[HughForrest]

I'm not tempermentally suited for a show car, and my work is not to that standard; and since working on the cars is what I enjoy anyway it all works out for me. I have drivers I can really drive without too much worry.

[Allan Faust]

My car will definitely be a daily driver.... and it will look good to me....no matter what anyone else thinks... because it isn't only a car, but with all the work I've put into it, and will put into it, it is a part of me....

Allan

[RobertKB]

Fred, you say your car was one trip away from the scrapyard. Well, my '48 Dodge D25 Club Coupe spent some time in the local scrapyard and they had started to part her out. She had no radiator, gas tank, back window, rocker chrome strips, and a few other things missing. I figure she is now about a 3.5 as she needs repainting and I did the interior myself and although it is good enough for me it does leave something to be desired. But she sure is a driver and gets lots of miles. Don't mind driving it on gravel either. Plan to repaint it as it is a great example of a 20 footer. Paint has started to peel. A friend and I painted it many years ago and it was a bad job then and has not improved with age.

[47heaven]

Fred-

My car is a driver and I wouldn't want to take the time to make it a show car...mainly because of the cost involved. Also, most shows, I have found, are politically rigged anyway. If you enter your car in a car show for the first time, and your car is better looking that Joe Blow's, who happenes to be friends with the judges or organizers, Joe Blow will win anyway. It's that easy. My plan was to may my P15 look nice, be dependable, safe and not cost me a life savings to have restored. So what if my new wiring isn't braded or my system is now 12 volt or I didn't uses the exact style bolts, screws and nuts. Who's going to see that anyway...who's goning to care? So what if it isn't "off the frame" restoration...again, who is going to really know or care? The thing is that my car, even though is not perfect, is painted, upholstered, has the engine rebuilt and I'm out enjoying it and people give me many compliments. Not sitting at home with it on racks because I can't find the exact screw and bolts that went into it before. Hell, I'm certain that some people on here laugh at the things Norm and I rig up on my car, but hey, it works and we are both out driving our cars.

You car looks great, in in all honesty, I would rather have a '46-'48 Chrysler coupe over a P15, but my car is a part of me now and plan to enjoy it for as long as I can. Keep up the good work and let's get that bad boy finished!

Darin

[james curl]

What I was trying to point out that a 20 footer to me is what I have and want as I drive the car every day. Even at $3.85 a gallon gas and 12 MPG I use at least one tank a week in my car. I enjoy driving the car everywhere, if it was a good #3 or better I probably would worry too much about the paint job to enjoy my car. Since I retired 5 years ago this month the paint job has taken a beating. I no longer park it in my neighbors garage around the corner, but in my driveway so that it is always available. We have been having 102 to 104 degree weather here lately and I still drive it everywhere instead of my little car that gets 30 MPG and is air conditioned but no fun to drive, just a modern car.

[55 Fargo]

Robert, she still looks could for a n improved paint job, still figure my car was amoe of a basketcase than yours, hey but who's keeping score......Fred

[55 Fargo]

Fred-

My car is a driver and I wouldn't want to take the time to make it a show car...mainly because of the cost involved. Also, most shows, I have found, are politically rigged anyway. If you enter your car in a car show for the first time, and your car is better looking that Joe Blow's, who happenes to be friends with the judges or organizers, Joe Blow will win anyway. It's that easy. My plan was to may my P15 look nice, be dependable, safe and not cost me a life savings to have restored. So what if my new wiring isn't braded or my system is now 12 volt or I didn't uses the exact style bolts, screws and nuts. Who's going to see that anyway...who's goning to care? So what if it isn't "off the frame" restoration...again, who is going to really know or care? The thing is that my car, even though is not perfect, is painted, upholstered, has the engine rebuilt and I'm out enjoying it and people give me many compliments. Not sitting at home with it on racks because I can't find the exact screw and bolts that went into it before. Hell, I'm certain that some people on here laugh at the things Norm and I rig up on my car, but hey, it works and we are both out driving our cars.

You car looks great, in in all honesty, I would rather have a '46-'48 Chrysler coupe over a P15, but my car is a part of me now and plan to enjoy it for as long as I can. Keep up the good work and let's get that bad boy finished!

Darin

Hey Darin you wanna trade:D :D , I actually prefer the P15s, but now have this car that is also a big part of me.......Fred

[JoelOkie]

Fred, You have a very nice car. The nicest thing about it is that you (or I) don't have to please anyone but ourselves. I'd say just keep working along on it according to your own priorities, (but keep driving it as much as possible), and you may be surprised what it evolves to in the end. Either you will reach a finished point when you are totally satasfied with your car and ready to just enjoy it, or you will never get completely done, and keep "tweaking it" past details you wouldn't consider right now. I have been (and am) both places! Joel

[Young Ed]

Makes me wonder how many of our cars on here were saved from junkyards. My car came out of a yard and still sports "sell complete" on the drivers rear fender.

[Frank M.]

Hey Guys; Theres room in this world for everbody. Just because someone wants a car to be like it was new,or as close as they can get it---thats ok!!! Sure--its a lot of work to get it there,but thats a personal choice. Just like a driver is. I have both,and enjoy both. I love to show my show cars,and get a kick out of driving my driver. Having done a show car,I appreciate what work goes into it. Sometimes it sounds a little like guilt because we dont go as far as we know we could. Do your car the way you like it,and enjoy the other guys car as he does it. Not meaning to offend anyone--- just trying to see everybody look at ALL

side of the old car hobby, Frank M.

[randroid]

Gents,

My '48 P-15 is and always has been a solid #2, a condition of which I am reminded by everyone who sees it, and I wouldn't want it any other way! Just the other day a friend stopped by and remarked what a piece of #2 it was and I could only beam with pride. It is such a #2 that I'm thinking about renaming it "Mr. Hanky".

-Randy

(Ever try to get the sides of a piece of #2 smooth-enough to paint? That can be a real messy job, but all I can say is, tough #2.)

[Merle Coggins]

From the beginning of my truck project I said that I wasn't gonna build a "show vehicle", I just wanted a nice lookin' truck that I could drive around town... and that's what I got.

However, my girlfriend pointed out a glitch in my plan. At the WPC meet while she was helping me clean it up for the show, I kept telling her it didn't have to be perfect because "it isn't a show truck". To which she replied, "Why are you putting it in the show then?"

Merle

[Frank M.]

Merle; Inthe last paragraph of your post just above this---your girlfreind hit the nail on the head! A lot more people than we think lust for the show cars, and say how they just want a driver. Yah Somehow you can tell what people are thinking. Its great to have a driver. Its also great to have a show car. No excuses are needed for owning either. Nuff said.